Rega P9/RB1000 or Spacedeck/Spacearm?

Hi folks.

I have an LP12 with Naim Aro tonearm and Armageddon PSU. It's a bouncy arm on a bouncy deck, and my wife and I would like something a little less fiddly which can easily play her 45s but lose none of the sound I like in the LP12. Also, though I really like the LP12, I just fancy a change as I've had LP12s on and off for around ten years and I've never been 100% happy with any of them to be fair - they've always either been very lyrical and emotional but revealing of vinyl flaws (my current LP12), or quiet but a bit lifeless (my previous LP12).

The cartridge I use is a Lyra Helikon standard MC, which is still quite young and I intend to keep this and use it on whatever deck I end up with. Phono stage is a Dynavector P75.

I like the idea of the current P9 with RB1000, and also the Spacedeck (with SPacearm or an Origin Live arm). Has anyone done any comparisons?

Assuming that I can get £1750 for the LP12 with Aro/Armageddon but without cartridge*, I am guessing my budget will be around £2000 to £2200. As I said, I'm keeping the cartridge as I like it and don't see any need to change there. I'm also hanging onto the P75 as it's a great stage.

Any P9/Spacedeck owners done comparisons against fully-loaded LP12s? Will my cartridge work synergistically in an RB900/SPacearm or OL arm?

Ah, so many questions...

john

 

Any P9/Spacedeck owners done comparisons against fully-loaded LP12s? Will my cartridge work synergistically in an RB900/SPacearm or OL arm? john[/QUOTE]

Yes, about two years ago but using Ortofon Rohmann. I felt my humble Marantz cdp kept tripping my LP12/Ittok/Lingo-MK1/Linnto-MK1/Rohmann up making it sound thick and muddied. I had heard Aro and Ekos a number of times and this was not the answer for me. This periodic distraction made a mockery of the price differential and all my other kit had changed. By then I had Unison SR1 and Opera Superpavarotti speakers (all gone now).

I borrowed a P9/RB1000/Rohmann, I preferred it. Thinner than the Linn, a bit less emotion but I felt that emotion was bloom and confusion, not reality. Classical and anything with natural instruments showed the biggest superiority in my view. I was very tempte. I wasn't totally sure though, the LP12 still held its own in many areas.

I then took my LP12 for Spacedeck (and SME) demos. This was the first time I properly heard the mythical soundstage. I went for the NAS combination on pure price and value. This big, big landscape of sound, the quietness, the superior top and bottom, detail, insight and long decays on notes such as piano. I felt it was a big improvement and although my whole system has continued to be improved to a point that I am now really enjoying it, the Spacedeck remains an important cornerstone. YMMV of course.

Paul

 

Personally - and this is just an opinion here -

I'd be sticking to Rega arms on a Rega deck, and unipivots on a NAS deck.. although not necessarily a NAS one.

I cant comment on Rega decks, having not heard anything above a P3.

If I was spending 1k-2k as you seem to have, I'd be looking at spacedecks, hyperspaces, kuzma, maybe an SME 10, theres these and so many more. I think we really have it good in TT choice right now.

The hard bit is getting to a dealer with them all set up for you to try. I cant think of anyone apart from Walrus who can let you listen to 4+ decks in your budget.. Live near London?

 

Just to ditto what Paul said re the Spacedeck's performance.

I came to mine via 2xLP12's (first bought in 1985, the 2nd in 1990) then a Gyro. Each one had its own strengths but despite the Gyro lasting the longest (11 years) I still hankered after something which sounded 'right'. Being subjected to live music virtually every working day doesn't necessarily give one any authority over those who aren't, but I will say that the Space gets a hell of a lot closer than any other TT I've owned. It doesn't ram 'the tune' down your throat the way an LP12 does as it just lets it flow at its own tempo. However I'd put my neck on the line here and say that the LP12 hides its other (very few admittedly) weaknesses behind the 'tune' thing. Once I'd sat and listened to live music the 'Teifenbrun Way' and become incredibly frustrated that it didn't in fact do what he said, the rot set in. I really think, at last, I've found the answer, or at least a better collection of compromises.

I was spinning some old (ECM) Chick Corea on the Spacedeck earlier his evening and despite my modest amp and speakers, I could say quite sincerely that I was listening to music.

Oh...and I visited the NAS 'factory' today and met Tom Fletcher himself. A more sound bloke would be harder to meet.

 

nb

just seen that you're in fife. That makes things harder!

The Audio Salon in Glasgow usually has some of the off-the-beaten-track decks in.

 

John,

I have a LP12 with Cirkus, Lingo, ARO, and EsCo re-tipped Troika.
Last week I went to Walrus for a dem. I only listened to two decks (plus I took the LP12 as a reference), the Orbe and the Spacedeck. After listening to my LP12 for a while we swapped over to the Orbe, with a Morch arm and a Lyra Helikon.
It had better soundstaging, piano was much better, as was a Beethoven symphony - in the complex passages it was a lot easier to differentiate the various instruments. Where it failed was on female vocals. We listened to some Helen Watson, and her voice was much thinner sounding. Then a K D Lang track, which should be a real tear-jerker, but on the Orbe all of the emotion was missing, you just didn't connect with the music.
Next up Les was going to connect the SME10, then the Hyperspace, but after clarifying the budget we abandoned those and tried the Spacedeck/Spacearm with an Ortofon MC15. Although it showed some promise, with good timing and pace, it was clearly being held back by the cartridge.
A quick chat with Les, and he suggested swapping the Ortofon for a Lyra Dorian.
The difference was amazing. We were now listening to a £2000 package, which equalled the Orbe for soundstaging, bettered the Linn categorically on classical, and was also fantastic on female vocals and rock, with terrific pace, energy, and rock solid deep bass.

My LP12 has just closed on eBay at £1650, so I think £1500 would be nearer the mark if you sell yours without a cartridge.

I can't comment on the Rega, but the Spacedeck/Spacearm with the Dorian was a magical combination, that's what I will be getting as a replacement, and I'm sure your Helikon would sound fantastic in the Spacearm.

Neville

 

I've owned a P9, a fully loaded LP12 (though loaded in a different way to yours) and currently have a Spacedeck / Spacearm and no plan whatsoever to change it. That's all I need to say really.

Tony.

 

I owned an LP12 (Ittok, Cirkus, Lingo) and then demo'd a NAS deck (a 2nd hand 35kg+ Mentor).

I kept the NAS, sold the Linn and made £250 profit.

My old Sondek was level, on a wall shelf, bounced 'as it should', and the arm was in fine fettle. The NAS (plonked on the floor, 'nearly' level) showed the Linn to sound soggy, bouncy and coloured. Euphonic maybe, but missing a lot of detail and timing?

Definitely.

Nottingham Analogue Studio make music machines.

Most of the competition make lightweight consumer products destined to be shipped to mass markets.

 

No competition spacedeck and arm everytime

 

Every time I've heard the spacedeck and spacearm I've loved it, I've not heard that Rega deck, but I've heard the others, and would on that basis go the the NAS without a doubt

 

Update

I went to have a good listen to the Spacedeck/Spacearm combo yesterday and was impressed. The cartridge was a little downstream of my own (a Musicmaker MM), and as it was a 'pop by' style demo, I'd not brought my own amp or speakers. Was impressed; it seems quieter and less ruthlessly revealing of less than perfect vinyl. I took along a few dodgy LPs to see how it'd cope with the 'bottom feeder' vinyl which composes much of my collection.

A seriously worn 1st press "The Yes Album" has a lot of groove distortion. I had meant to pick up my other plum LP but picked this one by mistake. It's almost unlistenable on the LP12, but on the Spacedeck/Spacearm the music was all there. It couldn't detract from the damage but its effect was downplayed.

"Between nothingness and eternity" by the Mahavishnu Orchestra has a big scratch across the first third of side 2 .This is a quiet phase, and that pop...pop...pop really spoils things. However, again, the Spacedeck did make the pop less intrusive and revealed the LP to be pretty quiet otherwise - which was surprising considering I've owned it for 18 years and it was originally abused on a (cough) Matsui plastic turntable...

"Mock Tudor" by Richard Thompson is a great double LP, and one I know very well indeed. The first track of side 1, lp1 has a tendency to mistrack on some cartridges, and the Spacedeck's cartridge sadly mistracked a little. However, it redeemed itself with the second track which sounded (on this lesser cart) every bit as good as it does on my LP12/Aro/Geddon/Helikon, maybe a little better.

"Cosmo's Factory" by CreedenceCR is a great album, but the copy I took was a lifeless, flat pressing. It sounded terrible on the Clearaudio deck I once had, and a bit crap on the LP12. The SPacedeck made the most of it, though it's still a lousy press. Being able to cope with less than perfect (or downright awful) vinyl is a priority for me, and one of the main things that prompted me to look to the NA deck.

"Led Zep II", 2nd pressing. Given to me by a colleague, cleaned on the VPI but having a few battle scars of its own, it sounded great. I am a bit torn over whether I prefer my deck's rendition or that of the SPacedeck - different interpretations but both equally valid.

So, overall, the SPacedeck with HD kit, Spacearm and that MM cartridge at least equalled my LP12/Aro/Geddon/Helikon in most if not all of the important ways. Crucially, it's a more stable, 'blacker' sound, and more forgiving of the sort of vinyl that I (as a bottom feeder) often play. I didn't try anything audiophile or 180gm, nor did I worry about those discs. I reckon it'll better the LP12 with ease on those discs. The dealer did play some Dave Brubeck which sounded stunning, and quiet!

Being an impulsive sort (honest) I managed to agree a trade-in price for the Linn against a new Spacedeck with Spacearm, HD upgrade, keeping my Helikon for use on the new deck. Ideally, I'd probably not have bothered with the HD 'heavy kit' upgrade, but as the trade-in price of the Linn and the rrp of the standard Spacedeck/arm combo were so close, I figured they might not have been so generous on the trade. I didn't really want to sell the LP12 via Ebay so this was a good deal.

I have therefore agreed to 'go for it'... more later!

John

 

i would agree wholeheartedly go for the spacedeck although i currently use a roksan radius 5 which is fabulous and completely blows my old lp12/lingo/cirkus/ekos/troika
out of the window and kicks it down the street
not quite up to my last deck tho a voyd .5 reference/sme 310/musicmaker
but i would say the spacedeck and radius5 are even stevens

chris

 

You might like the Avid Diva. I'd buy one of those and a morch dp6 at that money. The diva is about £1200 and the morch is £900 so just within budget. I like the NAS stuff but I wouldn't want to live with one all the time, I prefer the Avid presentation- top end seems to go on for ever, big bass and very tuneful but not in the same forced way as the lp12.

 

I am curious to try an NAS deck - probably the Interspace or the Spacedeck - but I am slightly concerned as I think I read recently that NAS and Naim is not the perfect match. My amp is a Nait 2 and this is hardly going to change as I like it quite a lot. So, does anyone have good/bad experiences with NAS vs. Naim? (My speakers are Linn Tukans.)

Thom

 

Thom thats probably a good question for pink fish, which has more Naim + NAS users than zerogain. http://pinkfishmedia.net/forum/

I have a NAS, but truly I would say that I dont believe system matching is relevant with a turntable (other than the choice of arm/cart/phono stage)