REL Quake

Discussion in 'Hi-Fi and General Audio' started by Kelly, Jun 19, 2004.

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  1. Kelly

    analoguekid Planet Rush

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    James the poser tag is aimed at BMW drivers as most are bought by people because of the badge, yes they are good cars and some are bought by driving enthusiasts for the correct reasons, but most are bought because of the blue and white propeller, and the cache that brings, how many families do you see putting up with lack of rear room in 316 (not bought for performance) series when they would be better served by a mondeo sized car, but they don't have the cache.

    Yes they could both corrupt the steering but that doesn't mean they wont be good to drive, you really should try some good front driver some time, The Cooper S has much better steering (feel and accuracy) than the 3 series (not including M3) and the old Pug 309 Gti was another example. Not all front drivers are compromised.
     
    analoguekid, Jun 30, 2004
  2. Kelly

    julian2002 Muper Soderator

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    james, do you do a lot of track days then? or are you driving like a loon on the public roads hoping to drum up trade for your mates down the butchers shop?
    the m3 is a nice car spoilt by it's image. personally i wouldn't touch one with a barge pole for that very reason.
    cheers


    julian.
     
    julian2002, Jun 30, 2004
  3. Kelly

    merlin

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    I used to AK. I have moved house on more than one occasion, and it is fairly obvious that you need to match a system to your surroundings or use a quality EQ. Oh and how does the mastering engineer know if you are using so beefy monitors in a large room or some insubstantial hifi air generators?

    Antonio, I don't get it? Are you saying your native tongue is Italian? Or did you just look at the pictures and miss the point even in those days?
     
    merlin, Jun 30, 2004
  4. Kelly

    analoguekid Planet Rush

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    Merlin have you listened to the expressions? or are yoiu judginng them on spec alone? I think that even a bass head like yerself would find them fun.:) BTW i feel that even using a quality EQ is still very nuch a compromise, as the signal has to pass through more equipment before you hear it, my kit doesn't even have protection circuits as this the designer feels would impact on quality, never mind extra leads, and all that electronic gubbins that such a system contains, agree thats its prolly very cost effective if you move around a lot, but it's still a compromise.
     
    analoguekid, Jun 30, 2004
  5. Kelly

    merlin

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    Have to disagree there AK. Your system, with no means of compensating for both the distortions introduced by the room and the incorrect assuptions of the mastering engineer, is in reality more compromised than you think.

    But I guess after the recording has been through numerous stages of EQ, level adjustment and digital decimation before being stamped hopefully concentrically onto a small piece of polycarbonate, it's fairly essential to keep the signal path as pure as possible from there on in ;)
     
    merlin, Jun 30, 2004
  6. Kelly

    The Devil IHTFP

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    Hi Julian,

    I love the grabbing of the moral high ground - nice one! I didn't bump into anyone, just in case you were genuinely worried.

    Don't care about image - it's totally in the eye of the beholder.

    Those who know about cars will see a great car, those who don't, or are envious, will see a stupid tosser. Who cares either way? Same goes for Porsche/Ferrari, etc which are also great cars.

    Aren't/weren't you the guy with a Lexus? Alan Partridge...?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 30, 2004
    The Devil, Jun 30, 2004
  7. Kelly

    Paul Ranson

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    I've never driven a BMW. Or a Saab.

    But the Audi A4 Quattro doesn't understeer, or rather it doesn't oversteer. And the Landrover Discovery handles and steers remarkably well. Perhaps it still counts as an honorary BMW?

    Paul
     
    Paul Ranson, Jun 30, 2004
  8. Kelly

    analoguekid Planet Rush

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    Not disagreeing entirely re compromise Merlin, but i bought my kit as I liked how it sounded in my compromised room, it prolly isn't flat accross frequency range, but it sounds good all the same, some of you seem to be hung up on measuring specs and then introduce other equipment to get specs close to measured ideal as possible, but that doesn't tell you how it sounds afterall our ears may add emphasis to certian wavelenghts, just as our eyes see colours differently, so what measure well may be too dry for example. I'm not arguing with you on this, just trying to let you see where i'm coming from, I will always use my ears to determine what for me is the most pleasing sound, is it accurate? does it measure well?, who cares, it's how it gets me on the emotianal level that counts, IMHO.
     
    analoguekid, Jun 30, 2004
  9. Kelly

    merlin

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    Glad to see we are not arguing :) FWIW my comments re speakers were aimed at the Thumbelinas and the like, not your Arts. Given that the sub will still be active up to 200hz or so, I'm sure they are entertaining.

    Now I certainly agree about using your ears. Some of the forum members refuse to trust theirs, preferring to rely on measurements and theory. I'm a subjective guy through and through (you'd have to be to use speakers like mine!) But the Tact is a genuinely useful piece of kit and can teach you alot about what parts of the spectrum impact on what you hear and what your preferred characteristics might be. You can learn about the effect the BBC dip has on image depth, where slam comes from, what makes fast bass, and many other exciting topics all from the comfort of your armchair!

    There will be those who utilise room correction to create a totally flat response and insure accuracy at all costs. Others (like me) will spend time crafting responses that appeal to our ears and musical tastes. All I will say is it's nice to have the choice!

    The Tact is very much a hifi product. Even with a lot of tweaking, it still lacked the involvement and flow of some systems I have heard. I've yet to hear a setup that could get close to it's imaging capabilities or detail resolution at anything like the price however.
     
    merlin, Jun 30, 2004
  10. Kelly

    lowrider Live music is surround

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    "Kali traditionally lives in the cremation grounds. Outside of society, because society can't handle her. She is too uncontrollable to be acceptable in society, she would bring it down. She's pushed the boundaries because she's a threat. She is uncontrollable energy that destroys what it touches. The world and society has to be protected. She is unacceptable in society because she is too dangerous. Often Kali has been associated with the "unacceptable" and the dangerous in society. Tugs, brigands who would attack people for sacrifices to Kali among other things, and the origin of our word "thug," were worshippers of Kali. Lower caste people might go to Kali. Kali has undergone a great widening of her power. She has been slowly moved into cities, acceptable society can worship her now."
     
    lowrider, Jun 30, 2004
  11. Kelly

    The Devil IHTFP

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    I think it depends on how it is driven, Paul.

    My old Saab was a magnet for these things, I think. I remember being tailgated on a motorway slip road by a Discovery. The slip road had a tightening radius, which forced him to back off temporarily. So intent was he to resume his tailgating that he failed to notice a red traffic light and queue of traffic about half a mile along the straight. I braked in plenty of time, and came to an undramatic halt. I had about three or four seconds in which to observe him locking-up all four tyres under his heavy, late braking. He came to rest about three feet behind me, at a "jaunty" angle.

    I think too many people step straight from a proper car into a 4x4, and don't realise their dynamic shortcomings.
     
    The Devil, Jun 30, 2004
  12. Kelly

    merlin

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    Antonio, sadly I knew you'd lost the plot somewhat earlier following your rambling response to critisism of the Thumbelina 11's.

    This only serves to confirm my suspicions.
     
    merlin, Jun 30, 2004
  13. Kelly

    julian2002 Muper Soderator

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    james,
    ahhh but i had a proper lexus the one without any identification other than lexus on the back. unfortunately lexus decided to go down market and compete with bmw. hence the need for individual product badging. ;)
    personally i've had my stint of flash cars and now i'm more interested in fuel economy over 0-60 and 0-100 times or handling and badges these days. if it's cheap and gets me from a to b i'm happy also i don't have to worry about some scrote keying it and eve nif they do i don't care.
    cheers

    julian
     
    julian2002, Jun 30, 2004
  14. Kelly

    The Devil IHTFP

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    Funny how the badge thing keeps surfacing. The propeller isn't good enough for Merlin, but too good for everyone else.

    Shows what a nation of snobs we are - inverted or otherwise.
     
    The Devil, Jun 30, 2004
  15. Kelly

    merlin

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    The word I have been looking for James is "vulgar". I believe that adequately describes the BMW marque.
     
    merlin, Jun 30, 2004
  16. Kelly

    The Devil IHTFP

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    In which case, the only things that you are displaying are your ignorant prejudice & snobbery.

    What about Mercedes, Jaguar, Porsche, Ferrari? Those things scream money! at the top of their voices. BMWs, by contrast, are elegantly understated in appearance, with a mild touch of aggression, fitting in a very fast car, I feel.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 30, 2004
    The Devil, Jun 30, 2004
  17. Kelly

    merlin

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    Far from it James. I think the marques you mention sream real money and old money. Sadly BMW seems to be associated with the brash new money and those aspirational baseball cap wearing youths - hence the vulgarity associated with the brand.

    As for the used market, well don't get me started there. Suffice to use the term "keys to me bimmer" I feel
     
    merlin, Jun 30, 2004
  18. Kelly

    The Devil IHTFP

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    I think that we shall have to agree to differ. At least BMWs are not shame-facedly anonymous like an Audi.

    I'm not ashamed to be thought of as 'new money'. I have earned what little I have through hard work. Far better, IMO, than to have acquired wealth through the death of a relative. Or am I missing another snob point?
     
    The Devil, Jun 30, 2004
  19. Kelly

    julian2002 Muper Soderator

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    i'd hardly call the front end of the new a6 anonymous - bloody ugly maybe (but not as utterly twatted by the ugly stick as the 5 series though)
    i wouldn't say there is a new money aura especially round bmw any more than mercs or jags if you want new vs old money cars you've got to look at bentleys, rolls and bristols (and possibly subarus) for real 'old money' cars. i think the big thing about beemers is that they have a very close chav connection whereas mercs and jags don't.
    cheers

    julian
     
    julian2002, Jun 30, 2004
  20. Kelly

    analoguekid Planet Rush

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    Watch yer comments re audis matey, they are what's considdered understated elegance, not Bimmers, which are brash and boring, the only good ;looking part of the 3 series is the snout, the rest is a mess at best especially the rear, the A4 on the otherhand is elegant an well proportioed, oh and simple things like coulor coded door handles etc are not extra, neither are decent seats considered an extra, I like driving the 3 but not keen on looks inside or out, transmission tunnel robs too much space front and rear, oh and why does the ultimate driving machine have pedals that don't line up with the steering wheel and cause you to have to cant youself at an angle in the seat, or put up with leg fatigue on a long journey, lets face it James the only area where the 3 has the others beaten is handling and throttle response, and while these differences can be exploited by proffessional drivers on the track, the difference on the road at sane speeds (and i'm still talking above speed limit here) to the majority who buy them is negligible, on a daily basis the Audi beats both the small merc and the 3 hands down, it's got much much better designed and built interior, (the bit you look at the most) better equipment levels(ok so it doesn't have rear leccy windows, but who needs them anyway.) Much better seats, better stereo as standard, and on the outside is way better looking, James you may love an M3 and you should buy one, but don't pretend there isn't an image problem with them, and it's not all about jealousy, i have A4 avant sport TDI I coulda had a slightly better drive in the 320d touring, but the Audi is the better overall long term package and I still feel refreshed after 300 mile stint behind the wheel, not something I can say about BMW seats, the only decent ones are the sports seats for which they ask too much money, when they should be satndard, not flat like the normal ones.
     
    analoguekid, Jun 30, 2004
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