Retirement hifi

I've seen this term before, referring not to reaching 65, but rather to the concept of settling on hifi to own for ages and give up agonising and vasellating that can really drive you nuts ! I own a valve amp thats a long story in itself that I'll come back to soon -- another post in the Mr.Lim saga. I have a Harmon Kardon AV amp which amazes me and I want to get better eventually. I have old Exposure 17 and 18 amps. To me its the Exposures that present the most promising practical route to "retirement" hifi. The valve amp has too many limitations and also problems related to politics with the brand. AV amps are too much of a compromise for music, but I want to run AV still. I was thinking, just get the latest Exposure New Classics amps and matching CD , partner them with speakers known to work well with Exposure, like Epos, say the M22, and for music leave it at that for years. Then I would seek to get a better standalone AV processor like the Rotel 1066 or 8, integrate the Exposures into it, which I can, and add second hand extra Exposure amps to make up the other channels. Relatively simple - one set up, no more pulling in and out of speaker cables and interconnects, magazines to bucket. Ok, what do you think?

 

I think there are two ways to retirement in hi-fi.. one is to get something that is 'good enough' and stop worrying about it. The other is to get something that is 'so good' the amazement at how good it sounds doesn't wear off.

I feel very lucky that I fit into the second of those two, so I would suggest that if you are still keen on Hi-Fi and good sounds, you should go have a listen to some real high-end kit and come back with a system that is good enough to not need upgrading. You will have a big smile on your face every time you play some music. It might disappear again when you see the bank balance though! I'd rather do that than have a system which is 'good enough' and in the end not bother listening to music.

 

Welcome to zerogain clothears!

Getting off the upgrade path is a difficult task to take for many hifi fans. I for one dont think that I'll ever tire of trying different products - its good fun.

From a financial perspective I've 'retired' - basically I don't invest more money, I just sell my items from time to time and try something else second hand for a similar value. This is a great way to beat upgradeitus without the pain!

Of course in your case I'm not sure my own case study is a good model because it sounds like you want brand new kit.

Like yourself if I was buying new I'd want to keep it for a very long time so that I didnt feel the blow from depreciation quite so much.

Its a question of which idea appeals most I think!

Im a huge fan of Epos speakers, but the models I've liked so much (the ES range) were difficult sometimes to match with the room they were destined for. I think in the right room Epos and Exposure equipment can sound excellent - and if thats what your heart tells you sounds best in your living room then nobody elses opinion will matter a jot !

When you're buying new home long and drawn out home demos become so important to make sure you're happy with your choices.

Funnily enough with used kit I frequently buy blind. I mean if you dont like it you can pass it on without much hastle.

One question I had was - have you thought about getting active speakers for the extra channels in your AV system? To me this looks like a great way to reduce the box count. Just a thought.

Good luck
cheers
chris

 

I was going to "retire" with Exposure amps, but then realised that I would need at least 3 power amps and someone else's processor to do A/V properly. Not so good.
Then I remembered that Roksan do/did a 5 channel power amp, in their Caspian range, together with the DSP unit, which has a 6 channel "thru-put", as well as digital inputs and analogues, both "pure" and DSP'd.
So, with this system, I can do multi-channel audio, home cinema AND music, using just a pre/processor and power amp.
The fact that the CD player and tuner sound excellent in their own right is also good. Plus, you just KNOW that Touraj will have got the phono stage(s) just so, for when I play vinyl. You can always get the units updated to latest spec., as well, if you want, with savings made by joining the owners' club.
On that basis, Roksan Caspian is my "retirement system": it does everything I want it to, can expand or be updated ... and sounds excellent.

 

personally i feel i've retired from hi-fi now. i'm deleriously happy with my kit and if i ever feel the need for a change i can fiddle with various bits of diy stuff like cables and speaker internals to perk things up - the last change i made was as simple as adding more wadding behind my bass cones!
a/v is something i came to a cross roads on and went down the 'cheap' path. an all in one solutiuon with a dvd recorder which cost 300 notes all in. i can hardly tell it apart from my previous b&w / yamaha / naim rig and i paid off a big wodge of my cc with the money i made selling the a/v stuff. only thing i may do is buy a new tv when my current one goes kaput.
it's all about the music for me now.
cheers


julian.

 

Im off the upgrade path aswell, admitedly a few items i would like to sort but they can wait.
More music buying now

 

aside from minor tweaks and nagging thoughts about a new tt

i'm retired

 

i'm pretty much off it as well. Any "upgrades" tend to just fit the circumstances, i.e. need more money, get something cheaper if i can. Or changes of speakers which suit the room better - whatever. But my interest is just not there anymore. Lifes moved on for me now, and hifi doesnt figure in it that much now. I still really enjoy what I have, but i take the attitude its good enough for me, and my tastes. Thats not to say I'll never get back into it, but if i did my circumstances would have to change once again, dramatically. i.e. more money, own place (i.e. my OWN place, not sharing), change of music taste.

 

My names Richard and I'm an Audiophool..........

No seriously all I'm doing now is tweaking and trying to save some money. Had a great day yesterday bought a different phono stage and a Denon 103, and I'm going to try them out against the Shure and the Slee, the winner will stay the loser will go and I won't have lost much. I got a load of pleasure yesterday tweaking the speakers, toed them in much more and got a hugely better image although it's a bit narrower. Buying new major kit. That just isn't going to happen.

 

I'm as annoyed as a bear who only owns a Amstrad stereo. I just made a long reply that got lost because by the time I clicked to post I got auto logged out. Great!. Next time I'll do it on Wordpad first. Geeze.

 

That shouldn't happen Cloth-Ears, at least it's never happened to me. Anyway welcome to the forum, hope you find many answers here.

 

Thanks for your quick replies.I'll explain my reasoning further, comment on things you said and also ask you to resond to follow up thoughts. I think I like Exposure on the basis of the second hand 17 and 18's I've been using through AE Evo 3's ( I tried them to cheaply see if my room could accept floorstanders). The Evo's are cheap and a bit wallowey but I was thinking the likes of Epos M22 are tighter and have the higher quality drive units to reveal the resolution I'd get from a top flight Exposure system. Obviously I'd try the others like Neat, Spendor etc before buying. The high end valve amp I'm using is better than my Exposures in some ways yet thay lack a certain feel you get with the Exposures. Thats not just confined to rock, its apparent say when an acoustic guitar is playing rythmically in a folk recording. You know yourselves its difficult to put into words but you sometimes get a feeling its good if not necessarily "accurate" or "pure". Play gutteral Hendrix guitar sounds, same idea, there's something extra there. While tonally, there's enough of the valve amps attributes in the Exposures to be satisfied with. Much more practical too ( that's a whole other story) and I'm able to integrate with AV. Someone said that would be expensive but not if I pick up second hand power amps when I can. Exposures are not that much to pick up, unlike say, Naim amps. As for Roksan solution, yes I could but I thought the AV unit wasn't supposed to be anything special, no? Still, thanks for reminding me and I will definitely look into it. Is the AV unit updatable via cards or software updates ? One of you said you use a cheap AV system. Yes it is amazing what cheap systems can do with movies. Good example is my £500 Harmon, through the Evo front and centre speakers. But at the moment that leaves me constantly changing cables or alternatively shifting two main sets of speakers around. I'd like integration. Also as I like my movie sound too, I want to get better with that too. I know I could go for the big 2 Arcam thingies for 5 grand but I don't believe I'd get the same sound, nope, I reckon that would also be a load of power I don't need and 7.1 again which I don't need, 5.1 being fine. Could you possibly help me out with these two questions : 1) Expoure's 22 CD player is £1400 and I only assume it to be synergistic , yet its a bit of an unknown quantity. Can't find any reviews. I reckon Arcam's players are a bit bland these days ( I own a CD92 Ringdac) . I did consider a Cyrus CD8x plus PSX. Or, stick to the Exposure ? Help anyone? 2) I did think about saving a packet, saving a lot of hassle too and going for the ultimate music + movies compromise amp, the Arcam AVR-300. Do you think it would be a huge drop down from an Exposure/Epos system? As for Arcam's family blandness, I thought I could always tailor the sound through careful speaker choice. Eg. Arcam amps are said to be brought out best by Monitor Audio. I thought maybe a whole package, minus sub, based on M.A.'s Silver 6. Plus, it would fit in with all the other equipment in the typical underscreen glass rack. Comments on that option please?

 

Are you planning to buy new speakers? Mains and surrounds?

If so what is your budget for the lot?

I think if I wanted AV as well as good Hi-Fi and wasn't planning to upgrade I would go for an AV processor (not amp) and then get active speakers all round. What I am about to suggest belo would sound far, far better than a Monitor Audio silver 6 surround set-up with Arcam box's.

How about a Cyrus AV8 surround processor with a pair of PMC AB2's powered by a pair of Flying Mole DAD-M100 Pro's for the mains (or active AB2's but not many places sell them and they probably have bryston rather than flying mole amps) with a pair of DB1S-A's (A is for active, they have flying mole amps) for the rears. I expect you can get a single DB1S-A for the center if you ask PMC. You wouldn't need a sub with the AB2's for mains, send LFE to them. I think that would come out at about £5000 if you shopped around a bit. It would be a cracking system and only have 2 box's in the rack with the cd / dvd player. I think the AV 8 has a good D/A converter in it so you could use your DVD player as a transport.

 

I don't know if I could buy a 'retirement' system in one go. I'd need to spend alot of time with each piece to make sure its the right one before I moved onto the next.

 

Wow Tenson, that sounds like an amazing av system, but the speakers and all are biased for AV. Music is no.1 priority and it really revolves around the amplifiers used. I certainly would change the speakers, but according to what amps I'm to use. Like if I do settle for Exposure, I'd go for something like the Epos M22, or some other speaker that works well with it. Logically, I'd buy the centre speaker from the same range. As for surrounds I think I'm right in saying you can get away with something quite differnt to the front three. I'm using either old Heybrook or B&W Solids ( remember them ? ), but eventually I might get either cheap bookshelfs from the same company as the main L-R, or specialised thingies like M&K that are specifically designed to image cleverly, especially when I'm relying on 5.1 rather than 7.1. I came up with the Arcam AVR-300 idea because it would give "reasonable" performance for BOTH music and movies while at the same time being MUCH CHEAPER and HASSLE FREE . I just wondered if anyone could comment on just how much of a drop I'd take resorting to it. Speaker choice with an AVR-300 would be lower down the scale given the more basic quality of electronics and might be influenced by the assumed need to "boost" the Arcam family's somewhat safe sound- I'd have to try a few middle priced boxes and buy the surround package based on it. But hey, that AV system you suggest is very mouth watering, and of course it would be far better than an AVR-300 ! I actually thought of going for an all Cyrus system, but then its a very expensive deal and you get sucked into stupid things like five hundred pound strips to mount them in etc, and having heard Cyrus, I wonder if they are all excitemnt but lack the warmth/ quasi valvyness the Exposures also possess. By the way, budget is flexible. If I was going the whole hog I certainly would be having a processor, e.g. the Rotel along with Exposure. However I will look into those active speakers you suggest.

 

Hi Cloth-Ears,

We recently ran a thread 'whats the best system for £500?' and while I appreciate you're looking at more expensive gear, what was most apparent to me was that everybodys idea of how best to spend cash and the choices of equipment they would choose was different. There was no consensus at all...

I think if you want a consensus about a question like that, then you'll only get it from somewhere like for example the Naim forum which will have more (more not completely) universal opinions.

For my own opinion I think for example Neat, Monitor Audio, Spendor, Epos are completely different sounding brands - not many people would like them all...monitor audio and spendor for example are pretty polar opposites IMHO!

I dont mean to sound condescending (I hope I dont), but you'll probably get more joy with some home demos.

 

I mentioned MA in the context of Arcam only and commonly stated opinion thereto. I mentioned Epos and Neat as they have both been cited as particularly suitable for Exposure and I have been assuming that they are quite similar. I mentioned Spendor having no knowledge of them other than a notion that they might be quite " old fashioned " but I included them in the list as they were mentioned by an Exposure dealer as contenders. The only things I thought were really similar were Epos and Neat. Yes, home demos are the ultimate, if only I lived where I could get all the brands I want to try in one place. I don't think you were being condescending by the way, I appreciate your comments. In practivce we have to try things out.

 

I wouldn't say the system I suggested was biased towards AV, the AB2's with Flying mole monoblocks would kick arse! I would personally go for some cheaper rears if I could but I think tonal matching of surrounds is actually very important. If you want to know more about the Flying Mole amps then I think someone here just got a pair, from what I read they are damn good so don't let the price fool you.

You can of course go with the Bryston amps if you think they would be better. The AB2-A's would have Bryston amps.

 

Game over

Good thread. I have now got my retirement hifi all sorted out. I would definately say it's in Tenson's second category as well, imho. I thought it was just me that was going for this approach.

The final piece in the puzzle is the preamp, but that will be sorted quite soon too. It's a nice thought it's all finished and I can forget all about equipment. I think the sooner you do this, the more you just listen to the music. Satisfaction and familiarity over a long time seems to make the gear melt away. I used to experience this phenomena with my Dads hifi, as it remained unchanged for a decade or more. Also, it actually works out much cheaper in the long run as you don't keep loosing money on half hearted multiple solutions along the way. So long as you buy gear made to last! You know full well it won't be over until you have your personal ideal anyway.

 

Sonic t amp (light mods) with 94db Living voices and an I=pod. there you go sorted