[Review] LC Audio Patriot V100

LC Audio Patriot V100

I bought this amp as a bit of an experiment. I'd often wondered what a reasonably powered Class A amp would do, as my main problem with most standard amplifiers is hash around the sound of a violin section, and this appeared to offer the best compromise between solid state grunt and SET purity. I've has several demoes of push-pull valve amps in the past and love the sound, but they (or at least affordable ones) have never had the power I want. I listen to primarily classical orchestral, particularly from the late 19th/early 20th cent and that needs to be played LOUD! So when this came up on ebay at a price worth a punt, it seemed worth the gamble, despite me knowing virtually nothing about it.

A few details (sparse and uncorroborated - I will try to get further information from the manufacturers):
Power: 100W into 8ohms, 200W into 4, 380 into 2 and 600 into 1
Current: 50A DC, (although that doesn't seem to tally with the power figure) 100A peak
Voltage Slew rate: >1000V/usec (don't know whether that's good or not , but it sure sounds impressive)
Bandwidth: DC to 4MHZ (!!!!)
Power supply: 4x500VA transformers
Size: 550x500x150mm
Weight: 55kg

Various switches for:
Pure Class A/Reduction (20W before slipping into B)
Single ended/symmetric configuration
XLR/RCA inputs
Automatic power-down (based on input signal level)

One really attractive feature was the reduction mode, so I can cut down on the leccy bills and save the planet. The other is the XLR inputs, as I've several times heard my CDP sound much better driving balanced that single ended. The concern was whether 100W would be enough - as I said I do like my music loud (when called for).

So I've been listening to it for about 2 days and how does it sound? In brief - I've never heard anything better! Now I know I said pretty much the same when I got my MF NuVista M3 - but I was comparing that against my previous 25W Technics, and high street stuff up to 2K (+ higher priced valve gear). Since then I've heard a fair bit more gear and see that the M3 is not the be-all and end-all, but it's still a damned good amp (unless you tend to the Naim end of the spectrum, when it's the devil incarnate)

Partnering Equipment:
CDP: Wadia 861
I/C: NuVista 2.5m, standard (WBT) connectors, direct into pwr amp.
Speaker cable: Townshend Isolda DCT 3.5m, single wire, spades both ends
Speakers: Meadowlark Heron-i (+DIY links - 36 strands of 30awg wirewrap - same recipe as TNT UBYTE-2 tails)
Power: bog-standard kettle cable from a sureg-protect multiway adaptor - I'm not risking my 1000VA power conditioner until I know how much juice those transformers really draw.

Strengths:
1) Holographic imaging and huge soundstage. I thought the M3 was good, but this is staggering.
2) Crystal clarity
3) May be the flip side of the above, and I'm not the most sensitive in the world to speed - but if this isn't lightening fast I'd like someone to show me the difference.
4) Beautiful openness and purity in the upper half of the audio spectrum: violins, upper woodwind and female vocals are superb

Weaknesses:
1) Tonal balance? Not really sure yet, but see below

When I got the thing home and my back eased off after unpacking it (1am), I tried it with my latest favourite piano - Murray Perahia playing Chopin Etude Op 10 No 4 - and was amazed by the clarity of the sound. I heard him playing this live earlier in the week, and this was a damn close facsimile.

So what have I tried on it:
Poulenc: Organ Concerto (serious bass notes and immense attack from the kettle-drums)
Chopin: Etudes (part meltingly lyrical and part ferocious piano)
Glass: Violin Concerto ( a) frenetic and b)serene violin)
Elgar: Cello concerto and "Sea Pictures".
Mahler: Symphonies 1 (gypsy/jewish band impressions, bass drums)
Mahler: Symphony 8 (part 2 opening incredibly quiet and delicate, pp solo instruments dotted all over the orchestra; finale huge choir, orchestra and organ, very loud)
Moeran: Symphony in G - english pastoral, rolling hillside music.
Beethoven: Grosse Fuge (string quartet)
Schubert: String quintet in C
Handel: Royal Fireworks Music - majestic 18th cent pomp
Scarlatti: Period (i.e. reedy) violins and harpsichords, with immense dynamism and energy.
Albeniz: Suite Espanola (Julian Bream) - meltingly tender acoustic guitar
Faure Requiem: small choir and orchestra
John Tavener: Song for Athene - a capella cathedral choir (sung as recessional at Lady Diana's funeral)
"Friday Night in San Francisco": high-speed Flamenco/jazz guitar trio
Mingus: "The Black Saint and the Sinner Lady"
Ellington/Strayhorn: "His mother called him Bill"
Queen: Live Magic
U2: Joshua Tree
Paul Simon: "Graceland"

Overall impression:
Quite simply, the most realistic representation of an orchestra I've ever heard from a hi-fi (although that may not be saying a lot). It's still not the real thing, but I doubt I'll come any (OK much) closer. The layout and separation of the instruments is crystal clear, stuff that should be at the back is there and stays there when the violins start showing off. You can hear them still showing off even when the organ is at full tilt. And there's no hash (well on a good recording anyway). The lyrical bits are pure honey (when they should be). Janet Baker's voice in the Elgar "Sea Pictures" is staggeringly beautiful and rich: I always felt this was a great performance and recording, but I am now getting nuances coming through I never imagined before - now I see why people thought so highly of her in her prime.

And in case you think this is all at the expense of pace etc, I have also never heard anything close to how the "Friday Night" sounded. These guys were in the room with me and the precision of their playing was quite mind-blowing. The dynamics, the fingering....At one point (10:59) in the first track, I've just noticed that someone in the audience (or is it McLaughlin) joins in with a bit of impromptu percussion - four strokes on a beer-bottle (can't tell whether its just Michelob or something proper like Anchor Steam!), and a bit closer listening shows up them doing it much quieter for the previous 10 secs too.

Turning to the "Graceland" - this had all the bounce I could possibly want (particularly in "Call Me Al" and "That was your monther"). And "Under African Skies" worked its usual magic. Lilolee once commented that a particular system was the one he would use for trying to learn a bass-line. I suggest that this beats that into a cocked hat! And the deep bass is pretty impressive too. In the Tavener (recorded at Westminster Abbey) I kept hearing the faint rumble of traffic noise - before pausing the CD and realising it was on the recording. I also now hear a line an octave below what I previously thought was the bass line in the Poulenc.

Oh and the worry about this being only 100 watts? No - this is 100 WATTS. Maybe not as big as a valve watt - jury's out on that - but it sure beats any of your wimpy Class B watts! I had the Mahler on at warp 11 and pretty much the only distortion I could hear was inside my ears. And all the choral parts stayed as distinct as they should (but the choir still sang as a whole). The Poulenc also had some serious bass notes - I would guess about 20-25 Hz - which got me worried about the extension on the woofer cones (getting up to 1cm :yikes: )

So this is fantastic....my perfect amplifier.....isn't it?

Well, this clarity does have a downside. The string quartets are wonderfully present, but the violins are just a bit too incisive for my taste. You definitely get the front row seat and while I do like immediacy, this is too much of a good thing. Even the Berg's version of the "Grosse Fugue" (one of the smoothest out) got me wincing from time to time, and the Lindsay's Schubert showed up their tendency for thinness.

This also started me thinking I wasn't sure that I was getting as much upper bass/lower mid as I expected - cello etc.. This was particularly shown in the rock albums, where I could hear the bass guitars and percussion tracks wonderfully, but Bono's and Mercury's voices did not project as much as I expected. Maybe this is a more accurate rendition of what's on the disc (mastered for the midi?) than I've had before, but at the moment it feels a bit strange.

So where does that leave me? Feeling pretty happy - unless I come across any more problems it looks as if the gamble paid off big time. The sound I'm getting now is streets better than anything I've had here before:
the imaging is close to that I got from the Wilson speakers (even with the TACT), although only if you sit in the sweet spot - the Wilsons did it just about anywhere;
the smoothness and clarity is better than the Bel Canto (although a head-to-head may be required to validate that);
warp factor 11 is enough for me (whereas WM needs 14).

To address the problems I can see at the moment, I think the current plan would be to get myself:
a) balanced cables for the direct CDP-PWR link for recordings where I want the crystal clarity
b) a dark sounding pre (valve?) for where I want a more mellow presentation.
I can then plug both in at once and select using the toggle switch on the amp - and I need something for a radio/TV input anyway (and then there's a TT? Not sure about the sound, but some of them are gorgeous-looking pieces of engineering )

And then I'm done! :banana:

(It looks like the M3 could be on its way out. And the Bel Canto is definitely off my shopping list - for now )

 

20W of class A? Pah! My ATCs do ~200W...

Sorry, I appear to have turned into Bub

Get yerself a decent preamp, passive maybe. There's *no way* that Wadia digital volume control is anything other than evil...

-- Ian

 

Ian, have you heard Grahams 861 runing direct?


Graham,

Great write up! Sounds really good, I am glad the gamble looks to have paid off. Maybe some power cords would sort out the tonal balance and other minor anomalies. I wil bring my Kimber powerkords along when I come over next.

Looking forward to listening to it.

Cheers, Robbo

 

Nice one Graham. Sounds like it may well stay chez nous for a while.
For those that wonder what it looks like


I look forward to hearing it.

 

Ian,

Should have made it clear that the power ratings in the specs section were pure Class A (certainly the 8 ohm - not entirely sure yet about the lower impedance numbers) - the 20W value is only in economy.

[/serious mode]
....but, unlike the ATCs, these Watts sound nice (sorry....I appear to have turned into Parry )

And why do you need 200W when you only use about 2?
[serious mode]

The direct input really shouldn't lose much, as the DACs are 24 bit, so you're only throwing away the bottom few - interpolated - bits. I also seem to be running the volume at about 70 (and for CDs where the recording level is low it gets up to 100 - e.g. that Mahler 8). We'll see what a pre does anyway.

Lee - surely you meant "vous" not "nous"? Or does this mean I need to install extra security to repel tea-leaves!

 

Damn my crap French. You'll be doing all of the ordering when we Titian.

 

Sounds great Graham!

Time to sell the M3 I suppose?

I prefer the 'direct driven' sound too, but when you have 2+ sources, then some sort of pre comes into the equation as the only real option.

I'll try to get a passive pre from WAD as well as a power amp - so on the day you can hear the difference between a passive and active pre - if that would be helpful for you?

(you should bring some well recorded classical vinyl if u have some too, mine is all 50p charity shop offerings!!)

All the best,
Chris

 

It depends on the quality of the other sources, but as another option you could use an analogue to digital converter instead of a pre.

Cheers, Robbo

 

The ADC was my initial thought. My other principal source is the radio/TV feed from the NTL box - and it's sounded pretty good (although not CD) so far, but we'll see whether it can keep up with this step up in quality. Since the NTL box is probably basic output, I was going to go for a cheapo ADC from Maplins or something similar.

The need/desire to have an option of a mellower presentation raises the likelihood of the pre-option - as using an ADC would do nothing for the main source. And while vinyl is not a top priority for me (particularly now), the pre/phono route would also leave that posibility open. Thanks for the offer Chris, which would be good - but I suspect you've got a long enough list of kit already and I don't want to hijack anything.

The beauty of the switchable inputs (and Wadia driving both XLR and RCA) is that, if I can find the right pre, I can have both routes without needing any recabling. (I realise this is a fairly standard option).

The other option I've not yet tried is different filters on the Wadia. I've always used the standard DigiMaster filter, which gives the smallest timesmear at the expense of a slight top end fall-off. There are a couple of others that use a more standard algorithm; certainly one filter is a bit harder, but I seem to remember the last one does give a rather laid back/cosy presentation - which may be a good match.

 

Graham, I'm glad that you've at last found a replacement for the M3, and that your reaping it's sonic rewards and letting the 861 'sing at last', you can now 'dispose' of the M3, and with the remaning blanace left after paying for the LC amp, accquire a 'Nice Valve pre' to give you that 'Tonal balance' you love, why not take the V100 along to the bake off next week, and try one of the Valve pre's that will be there, 'should give you a Idea or 2'.
Give it time and it will grow on you more, but ultimately I feel you will require more power in the run, maybe put the LC on the top frequencies, and a Pass X150 on the Bass, now that would be nice worth a listen that would be. Tone

 

From what I heard in my system with the MF ICs with original WBT style plugs versus with Bullets, I sujest you reterminate your MFs and that might "cure" the small problem you detected...

 

Nope, but as sure as eggs is eggs, real men have more than one source, ADCs are an abomination, and digital volume controls (I don't care how expensive) are a *mistake*.


-- Ian

 

Well, since he lives in Zurich, German would get you a lot further than French When are you going btw? If I have time and if Titian's up for it I might tag along. I'd love to hear that Metronome gear

Michael.

 

Damn my crap geography, will somebody please hand hold me to Luton Airport.

 

when are you going? i'll arrange for an escort from junction 10 if you like

 

Graham , if youre looking for an excellent budget pre:


EC AUDIO FINESTRA preamp, TOM EVANS designed excellent sound
with good phonostage recommended 1300 500

http://www.emporium.dircon.co.uk/Transistor Amps.htm

Dean (SCIDB) brought this along to the last bake off, and it was truly very good. Crystal clear and dynamic sounding.

Completely off topic this second bit, but dont you think this sounds fantastic? -- I keep looking at it from time to time. I think its the VU meters I like the sound of the best.

YAMAHA F2200 professional series power amp 200 watts per channel,big and heavy with grab handles, gain controls and vu meters 350

anyway, lol, I reccomend the finestra - if you look at threads from the last bake off on GH you will see it was pretty universally liked.

Cheers
Chris

 

Sounds interesting - although, since one objective is maybe to tone things down a bit, crystal clear and dynamic may not be quite what I need; probably more like some of these warm, cuddly flabby, valvey thingies.


Anyway - that does it.....there is no way this amp's going anywhere, EVER (...or until the next one comes along ). I've just listened to Carlos Kleiber's recording of Beethoven Symphonies 5 and 7. This is probably THE one recording that got me on this upgrade lunacy nearly two years ago - I've never been able to listen to this truly great performance without wincing every time the violins got energetic. Well - tonight they sounded glorious - not quite like they do in the RFH, but as close as can be expected. Despite the recording being only 1975, there's a definite historical edge to the sound (and the soundstage is narrower and much more recessed than on most modern recordings), but on this system that just adds to the magic. For once the stunning quality of the playing could get through all that hi-fi gumf, tizz and hash and I loved it!!!!

Now it's Cassandra Wilson, and she's just plain gorgeous - and here! ("say hello to the ZeroGainers. Cassie").

Sorry..(.and I've not even had even a sip of malt yet..)..I'll calm down soon. Even if everyone else thinks its rubbish....I don't care

 

And that's what matters.

 

Graham, if you want to (purely up to you dear chap!)

Come to the valve/vinyl day early with your new power amp.

We could try it with a passive pre (from WAD), and my own valve pre (obviously active).

the rest of my system is different to yours of course, but it might help to narrow the field a little.

Cheers
Chris

 

Got to say, this is an absolutely fantastic amplifier for the money. Even at the original full retail price of £4.5k (?), IMHO it compares very well and to my miind is very reminicent of the sort of sound that much pricier Spectral amps make. Very clean and transparent at all listening levels, but without ever sounding glass, hashy, clinical or ill at ease (unless it's on the recording) - a rare feat indeed.

Certainly, listening to this amp at Graham's yesterday afternoon, it had all the usual desireable characteristics of pure class A operation, that ability to resolve low level and subtle harmonic detail and shading in a highly detailed yet still very natural and unforced manner.

As for rhythm and pace, well to me this amp just sounded cohesive and coherent. You heard what the musicians were doing all the interplay, the amp didn't try to re-interpret the performane for you.

Also very noteable was the way sudden peaks and troughs in dynamics just grow as they would in a real live performance, rather than stuttering as most amps seem to do. Maybe, the Meadow Heron's with their 90db/w sentivity were also aiding this neat trick, but this has to be one of the natural sounding amps for sensible(ish money) I've yet heard. Even more insane value then for the bargain price of £600 that Graham paid. Such a big big shame this amp is no longer in production.