[Review] Lyndorf TDA2200 & CD-1

Lyndorf TDA2200 & CD-1

I have now had a Lyngdorf TDA2200 true digital amplifier and a Lyngdorf CD-1 player for 2 weeks, and while they are still clearly running-in, I feel able to talk about their performance. My previous amplification was WAD valve gear, fed from a Moodlab NOS DAC, itself fed digits from a Pioneer PDR609 (crap CD player but quite good transport and recorder). I was happy with the sound that I was getting, but fed up with the practicalities of valves, eg occasional failures, dangers to pets and small children, high electricity bills etc. So, I harboured a hope that the Lyngdorf digital amp in particular would give me the same musical satisfaction as valves, but without any of the hassle, and at modest overall cost.

First point to note: the TDA2200 does need to run in. After a week is was utterly dire, sounding constrained, hard and shut-in, but a week later it is singing like an angel. Word on the Lyngdorf UG is that 3 months is needed before everything is truly settled. If that's true, then it's going to be good at the beginning of May!

The TDA2200 is a rather well thought out product, and uncommonly well constructed and finished. I like that fact that it has single ended or balanced digital connections. My amp has the optional ADC card, again with single ended and balanced connections. Having been used to the usual rat's nest of wires behind the stereo, having only one cable linking CD player to amp is a dream. The front panel controls are easy to navigate and the display is clear. The remote control that partners the CD-1 looks good, but has a few operational irritations like having to press “CD†before any of the disc navigation functions will work, if the last operation was on the amplifier. I also think that the big volume knob should have some sort of user selectable acceleration control – this one requires far too much frantic spinning for my liking, although it does look and feel good.

The CD-1 has the same neat look, even if the CD drawer looks slightly unhappy in the milled opening of the thick alloy front panel. I quite like the look now I'm used to it, but it's no Linn CD12 beauty. The menu allows various parameters to be set, but the one that will interest most people is the selectable sampling frequency on the digital outputs. It should be noted that for the analogue outputs (which can be turned off) the sampling frequency/rate is fixed at 96/24. On the digital outputs the user can choose 44.1kHz, 48kHz, 96kHz or 192kHz. I shall deal with this fairly quickly – 44.1kHz has balls but is ever so slightly coarse, 96kHz has a nice balance of detail, delicacy and oomph, and 192kHz sounds rather restrained. So, I leave it on 96kHz, but it has to be said that the differences do appear to diminish with a balanced digital connection.

The TDA2200 has parametric equalisation, accessed by the Lyngdorf DSP software on a PC, and in time it will take the new RoomPerfect Module (RPM) which apparently advances room correction way beyond the old TacT RCS. I have not experienced RCS, so I will not comment, but I'm looking forward to trying the RPM. My listening room has a quite sharp peak at 50Hz, with a not so sharp recess centred on 100Hz. Parametric equalisation cannot entirely deal with sharp peaks and dips, and of course you have to know where they are to effect a manual correction, so the RPM could be good, as it is said to be able to correct in 1Hz bands (unless I have heard wrong). I have access to a sophisticated Brüel & Kjær PULSE sound analyser, so I know what's going on in my room, and after quite a bit of fiddling I have arrived at a correction curve that rolls off the LF below 20Hz, and the HF above about 16kHz, with a medium-Q -4dB dip at 50Hz and a much less severe +1dB lift centred on 100Hz; also a 0.5dB low-Q lift centred on 450Hz. This setup gives good presence and a nice clean bass, which is still notably well extended.

The other parts of my system are Focal Daline compact floorstanders, NA Spacedeck/AceSpace Arm/Ortofon Kontrapunkt B, Trichord Dini/Dino+, Vertex Jaya mains thing, DH Labs T14 speaker cable, Kimber silver streak analogue interconnects, DH Labs D110 balanced digital cable. The rack is a pretty but not sonically very good Ash Designs product, which is improved by using Torlyte platforms on the glass shelves.

So, the sound. Now that the gear is better run-in, there is no trace of digital or solid state hardness. The overall presentation is very even handed, and there's an impression of immense power and scale. My old valve gear sounds very 'small' in comparison. The rather good “Genius Loves Company†by Ray Charles comes across particularly well, with a variety of good vocals and well played instruments. There are a couple of tracks with very deep bass, and it's amazing how ¼ wave loaded speakers with 5†cones can deliver really deep, yet tight bass, but they do on the end of the TDA2200. It's as if the amp will not let the little cones do anything other than follow the signal like a Jack Russell on the scent of a rabbit. I note that the same has been said of Bel Canto gear in this respect. Even when the volume is really cranked up, there is no distress and the music just gets louder, quite unlike my old valve gear. One of my favourite classical CDs is a Decca Legends reissue of a Britten/Rotropovich piano/cello recital, from Snape Maltings in 1968. It's good because of the complete sympathy between the players – never a sense of competition between them, and it's recorded very well (as Decca usually did in those days). The sense of place, space and detail that pour from this CD is quite captivating. There is not a hint of harshness and I'm always drawn into the performance, which the CD-1 and TDA2200 deliver astonishingly well.

I really did not harbour any great hopes that vinyl reproduction via the TDA2200's ADC (which is 96/24) would be much good, but I'm happy to be proved completely wrong. Lyngdorf claim that if you connect the CD-1 via its analogue outputs, to the ADC on the TDA2200, there is no loss of quality over digital-digital connection. I'm not quite sure about that, but vinyl sounds terrific by any standard and all the LPs that I have played so far have been musically absorbing, and terrifically enjoyable. The opening track of Supertramp's “Crisis What Crisis?†starts with what sounds like a noisy building site with footsteps approaching – I have heard this on some systems where there is absolutely no outdoor ambience at all, but the TDA2200 does it rather well, and there are further tracks on this LP that have great dynamic contrasts which the TDA just laps up; again without any sort of solid state or digital hardness. Like with CD, the presentation is very even-handed, but musically so, and not at all dull.

At the start of this piece I said that I was hoping that the TDA2200 in particular would give me valve musicality without the trauma, and already I have more than that, with the promise of more when it's fully run-in. The TDA gives the sweetness and openness of valves but with astonishing control and with commanding power, and with great facilities and ergonomics. I am completely won over by this pairing of Lyngdorf TDA2200 and CD-1, and cannot imagine what life would be like with a low powered SET amp, or indeed a not-so-low-powered valve amp. I should finish by stating that I have never heard any Bel Canto or other digital amplification, which I know are well-regarded on this forum.

Cheers

Shuggie

 

Nice review, good to get an update, keep us posted.

One question for you, have you tried running a digital coax connector from your DVD player as a comparison or DVD vs dedicated transport. I'm curious about your observations.

 

I've no reason to try, other than for curiosity, as I bought the TDA and CD-1 together. Use of a balanced digital connection does bring about a noticeable improvement in the sound, over single ended 75ohm, being slightly more focussed and possibly a tad warmer. I have a Pioneer DVD575A which I use solely for watching DVD discs - if you have a particular need to know how it fares into the TDA2200 then I can hook it up and let you know how it sounds.

 

Thanks for that. No real need to know, just curious.
Used to use a 575a myself into a DAC and updated it to a dedicated transport (Meridian 500). Found that there was an improvement, but not a huge one. Probably worth the s/h value of the transport, but only just. Wouldn't have paid £1300 for it.

 

I am now officially the first Lyngdorf dealer in The Netherlands and am experimenting with all the different components. I started with the CD-player, to get a handle on how it sounds in my familiar system (Lavardin IT, Wilson Benesch Arc) and I must say that it is the best CD-player I have ever had in my system! This includes models like ML 390S, Electrocompaniet EMC-1 UP, Wadia 830, Arcam CD23 and CEC TL-2x with NOS DACs (2 types).

The CD-1 has an immediacy, transparency, possibility to clearly lay bare all possible musical layers and a sense of headroom and relaxation without getting slow, which is out of the ordinary at ANY price. It isn't sweet, lush or overtly spectacular in any way, it just lets you know what's on the CD.

The upsampling is done very well, without the gray 'sameness' that most upsampling players share. Voices have a quality that puts them into the room. Hard to explain, but easy to hear. I really like that 'presence'. It however doesn't come at the expense of hard 's'-es or shouty artefacts. I heard sounds on CD's I had never heard, because of the way the player seperates all the strands, while keeping you focussed on the whole. This is what good hifi is all about and the reason I chose the Lavardin amp. Let's see how the TDA 2200 fares in my system!

I will update when I have more experience with the TDA 2200, SDA 2175 and SDAi 2175.

 

Pleased do keep the updates rolling. A review in a Norwegian magazine said that a weakness was the PC software side for room calibration but that hopefully things would get better.

 

I have done some extensive comparison (on my MartinLogan Vantage speakers) of the Lyngdorf SDA 2175 against my Chord SPM 1200E. The shocking news is that the Lyndorf is less coloured and has slightly better low-level detailing. The Chord has a bigger (higher, wider, but a bit less deep) sound stage and deeper (but less quick/neutral) bass. It also sounds a bit more compelling musically. However, the Lyngdorf is not clinical AT ALL! It even sounds very sweet and homogenic, with instruments taking shape in a very well-defined and extremely detailed way. The Chord is in some ways 'rougher' and less clean, with the occasional steely edge on high strings.

I was quite surprised, because the Chord is about 7 times as expensive! I still prefer the Chord, but not by a great margin!

The TDA 2200 has a more relaxed character, with even more low level details and more precise and more upfront imaging than the SDA 2175 (will have to compare apples to apples with the SDAi 2175, of course, the results of the SDAi 2175/SDA 2175 compared with the TDA 2200 have a lot to do with the quality of the front end).

 

Thanks for that. Personally, I'm interested in the TDA2200 to experiment with room correction in a second system. BTW, the website is not www.lyngdorf.dk, as one might expect - worth a quick visit even if you don't read Danish, as it is perhaps an ironic comment on hi-fi nuts - but rather www.lyngdorf.com

 

I think the RoomPerfect system will be spectacular. I am really very curious how it performs....

 

Although a bit of a Lyngdorf newbie, I feel obliged to point out that the parametric equalisation in the TDA2200 is no substitute for room correction, eg the eagerly awaited Room Perfect Module, and if it is not viewed in this way I find it works very well. The TDA2200's equalisation can be used very well to adjust voicing and minor anomalies etc, but it cannot carry out sharp corrections in narrow bands. Attempting to do so with very high Q filters does not work, as I have found out (there is a technical reason why this is the case, but it is beyond me to explain). The Room Perfect Module will allow very narrow band corrections, I am told, and it does sound rather intriguing. The ability to have a number of 'sweetspots' would be a genuine help to many people, methinks.

Regarding the SDA2175 and SDAi2175, I tried both of these before plumping for the TDA. The SDA is a genuine musical star, being exactly as Garmt describes, but with a rather low input sensitivity, which was too much of a problem for me. The SDAi doesn't have any such problem, but it does not sound as musical as the SDA - it's strangely uninvolving and mechanical sounding. It's blindingly good value, though, and I hope that Lyngdorf do tweak it a bit to bring its performance into line with the SDA.

The incremental cost (roughly £1k) of a TDA2200 brings about all sorts of benefits over the SDA/SDAi, not least having one box that does more or less everything (DAC, Preamp, power amp), with a minimum of cabling (bliss!). It's interesting that Garmt says that it has a more relaxed character than the SDA, as I would have said the reverse was true. Whatever, it is hugely enjoyable and musical, and if anyone thinks that the parametric equaliser is just a fancy graphic equaliser, then think again. It is musically very benign, unless you try silly things with sharp filtering, and I would not wish to be without it, as it allow you to have whatever tonal presentation that you want, with up to 7 presets that are summoned up easily by remote control. So, if I want a setting for low level listening, a bit like a loudness control, then I can create one quickly using the Lyngdorf DSP software. As I understand things, the Room Perfect Module does not preclude adjustments via the parametric equaliser.

Having come to Lyngdorf from valves, I have no regrets. What little I have lost (eg a bit of valve liquidity) is more than made up by the astonishing power, detail and completely even-handed reproduction of music. Yes, I do mean music rather than sound there. Whenever my CD-1/TDA2200 combination sounds harsh or gritty, it is always the recording that is at fault - this pairing hides nothing, but at least you can dial out some tonal aberrations if you wish!

I've waffled enough - I hope you get the picture!

 

I get the picture, thanks. Waffle about something that someone hasn't waffled about before is useful!

There was a follow-up to the Norwegian review on 5th Feb, now I look at the original website http://www.audiophile.no/Publisering.asp?Id=371, in which he tested the AD module. He found it a bit better with a straight digital feed than A to D, and also found it acceptable for converting of SACD, DD and DTS (presumably 2-channel): "The generally positive review of the 2200 [in the previous review] is so strong that the extra conversion steps for these formats is a diminishingly small minus in the margins..."

 

PS AFAICT it seems to use the same or very similar analyser software as found on http://www.kirchner-elektronik.de/Kirchner English.htm

 

I have been surprised at how good the ADC is on the TDA2200, so I can believe what you are saying. My Norwegian is too basic to understand all but the drift of that article! The ADC is fixed as 24/96, so analogue feeds from SACD would get through largely unharmed, with the added benefit that the TDA's anti aliasing filter will remove all the HF crap (eg above 48kHz) that SACD throws out.

I'm enjoying CD replay from the CD-1 via a balanced digital cable so much that I have not spent a lot of time with the ADC inputs, but they are good. That much is certain. I also think that if you're going to get the most of this sort of gear, then keeping everything digital is best (and tidier) - it's just a shame that noone can try a direct SACD digital feed, as the DRM in SACD players prevents that.

Cheers

S

 

In the pipeline from Lyngdorf is also a non-plus-ultra ADC with an optional RIAA correction in the digital domain! So if you want to hear your records at its best and have room-correction at the same this, this unit is the bomb!:MILD:

 

Bear in mind that I have not yet tested the SDAi 2175, just the SDA 2175 with a Lexicon MC-12/Arcam DV79 front-end. What I meant with 'relaxed' is that the TDA 2200 was more relaxing to listen to than the Lex/Arcam/SDA combo. It has better control, better 'layering', better low-level detail, is 'blacker' and at the same time is more lively.

It could be I am hearing the front-end as much as the amplifier.

There is one person here on ZG who has an SDA and thought it sounded LESS analytical than the TDA 2200... Maybe this is all down to burning in of the amplifier(s)?

 

It is exactly the same.

 

A month on, the Lyngdorf TDA2200 and CD-1 continue to improve markedly with further use. The sound has become maybe smoother (but not warm) and very detailed. I am getting frequent "feck me, that's good" moments!

I think what I have here is the proverbial straight wire with gain. Having been used to valve gear, I was used to a sort of euphonic presentation that is certainly nice, but not necessarily accurate. The Lyngdorf pairing are accurate, for sure, but not so that a performance is dissected like a post mortem, and laid out in separate bits. It's all very "together" and naturally musical. I'm presently listening to Martin Taylor's "Artistry" CD, for the first time in years, and the portrayal of small details and nuances in his guitar playing is really engaging - likewise the sense of space, which I have commented on before. Martin Taylor could quite easily be in the next room.

Having previously commented that I preferred the 96kHz setting on the CD-1, via a balanced digital lead, I now find that 44.1kHz via a long DH Labs D75 75ohm RCA cable is more enjoyable, being a tad more open and dynamic. Maybe this is because there's only one upsampling process going on, inside the amp where the digits are converted from 44.1kHz PCM to (I believe) 400kHz PWM. In time I shall play around with more digital cables but for now I'm happy enough.

I believe that Lyngdorf will be at the April Heathrow Show, in which case I will probably nip up there to see if it's worth plumping for the RoomPerfect Module.

Cheers

S

 

Lyngdorf TDA2200 and CD1

Hi Shuggie,

A brief reply on your experiences with these products - I can expand further if you are interested.

I got mine earlier this year. They sounded great right out of the box, and I have not noticed and change during the 3 months i have had them. Still sound great.

Have tried interconnecting via 75 ohm coax, TOSlink, and AES balanced XLR. All sounded the same. This does not surprise me as any competent data connection should transfer the data intact. Digital cables should not affect sound unless they lose or corrupt data, or pick up noise, which they should not if properly suitable. If they do affect the data it would be in a random way and not specifically affect treble, bass, etc as is sometimes reported.

Also found no difference with the upsampling rates, but I understand these change the ability to handle dynamic range, so may be only noticeable on recordings with loud peaks.

Agree about build quality and looks - both superb.

 

Here is an articledescribing the sound of jitter http://www.jitter.de/english/sound.html

 

Interesting. I guess this was posted in my reply to my point about digital cables and interconnections not affecting the sound.

I think this supports my view, and hearing experience.

If the cables introduce no (more) jitter, which they should not if properly suitable, there will be no change of sound. If changing the cable does change the sound, it is changing the amount of jitter, perhaps making it worse, or if it was a really bad cable before, making it better.

On the Lyngdorf 2200 you can have coax, balanced and TOSlink on adjacent digital inputs connecting your CD player, and switching between them you hear absolutely no difference using good quality cables.