[Review] Malaysian Promitheus Dual Mono Reference TVC preamp

tvc pre amp

Just been reading the thread and wondered if any of you have tried the Hifi Colective tvc.I got one about 5/6 weeks ago and I have to say I think its really good great detail and sounstage .

 

Yep=) I built one for my brother and was so impressed that I bought myself one too. Fabulous little preamps.

 

that looks interesting however the stock version has transformers too close to each other - i think it is better to buy a kit and separate them at least 5"-6" from each other. i would expect this to be audibly better. trannies are not shielded so their magnetic fields can interefere with each other.

 

tvc's

The transformers are certainly squeezed in but this little amp compared very favourably to a £2000+ passive pre. It really is very good and to be honest I cant see me replacing it for a long time.Has a few too many inputs for me 3 would do but I cant complain.I had the stepped attenuator version fist which is very good but I was taken aback at how well this performed.Definitely worth a buy if you want a top pre but dont want to spend large sums.

 

Couldn't agree more. I'm running a Glasshouse TVC into a WAD 6550 and it sounds lovely. I won't waste adjectives but I can't see me replacing it for a long while... In fact, once I can afford some of Zanash's silver speaker cables, my system will be 'complete' for the forseable future.

 

Tenson and mikeB,

The core of the promitheus is the same as the S&B trannie. HifhFI Collective uses a Promitheus trannie, they just dress it up a bit in house.
When we compared the two units the S&B took the cake. When I changed the wire to Neotech 7N in the Promitheus, the Promitheus took the cake . Go figure.

rollo

 

Thats why I ordered a dual mono dual enclosure unit.

Rollo

 

Rollo

are you 100% sure that S&B uses EI core transformers as promitheus?

i just can't believe if this is the case.

you will find in every 50 years old book on trannies that double-C cores are electrically superior to EI core trannies.

the reason why the DIY TVC i wrote earlier sounded clearly better than promitheus is just a different geometry of transformers, nothing else (no dissonant voices within a panel consisting of 2 promitheus owners and 2 guys with no involvement with TVCs).

if the geometry & the quality of winding is right, a difference between all the other parts involved (a type of wire, connectors, box) is of a minor importance (a sort of make-up).

you just can't fully exploit a potential of TVC as a principle with EI cores.

these are the thoughts of a guy who is in transformers for more than 25 years. he is behind the DIY TVC prototype.

you should discuss this with nick ASAP.

cheers

 

The answer is no. Low input sensitivity is what you want. Look at the output of the CDP. It must be 2V or better for optimum synergy. It is the source that is critical here.
What you do not want as well is an amp with a high input sensitivity.

rollo

 

Lautrec,

I did not hear this first hand sorry. Maybe I should have verified my facts first. However I will now verify.
I believe the material is the same British steel.
thanks for the heads up

rollo

 

The easiest way to check is to phone Jonathan from S&B and ask if his transformers go in to the Prometheus. Since one of his transformers, even at OEM cost, is about the same price as an entire Prometheus pre-amp, I very much doubt they use the same transformers.

If what you meant is that both the S&B and the Prometheus use the same core geometry… well maybe, I don’t know. S&B have been in the game for a fair while and Thorsten had a part in the design of it too, so I expect as a team they know what they are doing as much as anyone else does!

 

Promitheus don't use S&B - I know because we had a little chat about it when i visited S&B last year (was in Hastings seeing friends) they knew of the Promitheus but were a bit tight lipped, as for core geometry at this point this is above my head!

 

I thought Promitheus wound their own transformers??

 

yes, S&B xformers are of course different production than promitheus.

they do share a similar geometry (EI core, the lowest in a hierarchy of xformer cores). what should make a serious difference is a material that the core is made of. in case of promitheus that's good old plain iron, while S&B has a mix of permalloy (predominantly nickel with some iron) plus (5-6%) a small percentage of something that apparently keeps a secret of S&B performance despite small size and EI cores (both weak spots in a properly designed xformer).

my point is: i believe that neither S&B 102 nor (especially) promitheus xforemers are the last word in the world of trannies. in both cases production restrictions (costs, supply of some parts etc) directly influenced a design and some compromises are made. how audible they are depends mostly on your reference as well as on a rest of system - if it is transparent and clean enough to allow you to hear that you are missing something.

i was lucky to hear what a properly wound double-C core transformer can produce.

if you can image a preamp playing in at least one or even two leagues above promitheus, that's it.

i haven't heard S&B trannies yet but i should have a chance for a test in 3 weeks.

if you like a current crop of TVCs, hold your breath until someone decide to offer a product based on a proper trannies' core geometry as well as a size.

no shape can beat what double-C core can do if implemented (wound) properly. and don't forget that a trannie has to be BIG to get a massive, realistic sound, natural dynamics and the best frequency extension in a room (not only on paper).

 

Larkrise,
I remember you sold your MFA after getting the first Promitheus. Would you mind sharing your thoughts about how they compared sonically. I am a bit confused with some reports about how close call they are. I heard Promitheus from Nov 06 (I think pretty similar time from when your first piece came from) and I wasn't impressed that much. I have a TVC friendly system and I would be really surprised if a S&B based TVC would perform so similar, having in mind all the rave reviews all over the world.
But than, who knows?!
Cheers G.

 

I have been very undecided to be honest. I actually bought the promitheus as an experiment - was cheap enough of course. But it was actually hearing the Eklipse valve preamp that made me decide to sell the MFA. I liked the warmth plus detail, my source is very neutral (Transcend). Then . . . tried the dual mono version of the Promitheus and I felt this had the edge on the Eklipse. Then. . . sigh. . . . Koi advised me to try NOS Mullards in the Eklipse - and bang - hey presto the Eklipse had it. Sonically from memory it was rather close but i think the MFA has it on space and detail, infact I posted some notes of indecision on this. My point is value for money here - the Malaysian is a fraction of the MFA and counterparts so is a great budget passive, but i thnk the S&B transformers are better, no surprises I guess. There are others however who have it as a gnats whisker. Think it very much depends on balance of rest of system.

Now howabout a remote controlled silver wired S&B John Chapman Bent preamp then. . . . . Reckoned to be the Bo**ocks of the dog - no offence to Martha pictured to the left?

 

you can now have the MFA with remote & silver wired. don't ask about the price though.

 

Hi Larkrise,
Glad you like the dual mono Promitheus. Another TVC option is the Autoformer from Dave Slagle ($200 a pair):
http://www.intactaudio.com/atten.html


I've just finished one (with a lot of help with the box /start the wiring etc from Vic - he of the airbearing tonearm). Works well with phono output.

Source switch and knobs from:

http://www.vt4c.com/shop/program/main.php?group_id=2

Wire is transformer magnet wire from Dave Slagle.

Total cost is about £200 for bits - so it's more expensive than standard Promitheus.

Sounds great 'out of the box' - need to listen more but think I prefer it to Promitheus (which sounds great IMO - a knockout for the cash).

 

yes, the promitheus is a great value for money and an extremely decent sounding product, much better than many expensive active preamps. i've had a need to say this because i actually didn't mean to criticize it at all - on contrary, i actually think that in modern audio we need more manufacturers like nicholas/promitheus, a decent, honest people who are fair to the customers. he could probably sell his TVC for double the price and have a similar profit with less work - and i am sure any western manufacturer would do it.
a fact that there are better sounding TVCs out there and more interesting design options for truly demanding customers, may lead towards much improved versions of promitheus - that is what we can already see with rollo's new unit.

 

OT - my apologize to mods for registring another nick for me - Lautrec. I had a bad PC crash a few weeks ago and all my passwords were gone, but somehow I've managed to recover my HD content so now I am able again to log under my old nick. Thanks, Gordan = anubisgrau = Lautrec (no more