[Review] Sennheiser HD650 headphones

Sennheiser HD650 headphones

I don't like Sennheiser headphones (how's that for a start?). The ones previously tested, up to the HD600 prior to buying my Grado SR125s, seemed to have this curious dead "hole" in the middle of the range. They sounded nice, but there was just a lot of middle frequency detail missing - and for a classical listener, that's very important.

However, I noticed that the local dealers had the new top-of-the-range HD650 in stock, so, in my normal Saturday shopping preamble, I had a test. Zihlmann's in Basel is nicely set up for this - a vast multitude of headphones all work off a single CD player and amp.

So, how did they fare? For my sort of listening, not well. They have the Sennheiser family "hole". For example, listening to a piece on Beyerdynamic 931s, at just over half the price, you could hear the instruments' keys clicking. You couldn't hear that on the Sennheisers. This could be an advantage; I took along an old favourite to represent more popular stuff, the wonderful finger-picking of Chet Atkins and Jerry Reid. On the Beyers, you could tell that this was an old recording from the level of tape hiss - you couldn't hear that on the Sennheisers.

I can imagine the HD650s being good on rock, but as the rock I own is largely confined to ornamental bits in the garden, plus a couple of slabs of basalt under the Keilidhs, this is not a consideration for me. So I won't be buying them - which is good because CHF595 is two weeks' grocery bills! Man may not live by bread alone, but this man can certainly live without Sennheiser HD650s.

 

Hey, Tones - this is the kind of way I start my threads!!

I know nothing about headphones, except that they usually make the music odd - very strong bass and treble and the voices get so odd. But that may be because the ones I listened to are bad.

So my post here must be taken for what it really is: a question.

I'm not planning to get a pair, because my amp doesn't allow it. Anyway, the question really is this one:

Some 20 years ago a doctor earnestly advised me NEVER to buy headphones, because they induce deafness. For all I know, I think he must be right: I once listened to a rather long organ piece through headphones. When it ended I could easily notice my listening had been abused. Of course it recovered all right, but I can't stop feeling there is risk if you use it repeatedly.

Would somebody be willing to comment?

 

I do a lot of headphone listening, RdS, because the computer is in the same room as No.2 system, to which I tend to listen to more, and as the younger ladies don't like my idea of music at all, I don't inflict it on them (especially as the computer desk is right between the speakers and my listening chair is at the other side of the room). So, good headphones are important to me. Given the choice, I would always listen to speakers, but I don't always have that choice.

With regard to hearing damage, I think it's only a possibility if you constantly use unrealistically loud volume levels - as do many lovers of rock. This, of course, is part of the deal with rock, lack of quality is compensated for by sheer quantity. Think of how many kids you've heard on trains and buses with earphone volumes so loud that you could hear what's being played/sung/wailed/beaten to death. Imagine what that is doing to their hearing! The other thing with much rock is that the volume level is more or less constant throughout the, er, piece, as opposed to much classical where constant, unrelieved, high volume over a longish period is a comparative rarity - and harder to achieve anyway with "natural" instruments. Even one of your organs would have a job competing with an amplified electric guitar!

 

I've been curious to hear the HD650 myself, given that its supposed to be a decent improvement over the HD600 and 580 according to folk on headfi. The improvements they cite are a smoother and less brittle treble, stronger and more powerful bass, an even more natural midrange than before, and generally less analytical and more musical (to abuse an overused term).

The comparison to the DT931 does not surprise me, the DT931s will definitely be more clear and detailed, but from what I remember of the HD580 (similar to the HD650) and the DT931, I prefer the HD580 by a mile, it actually has some bass to speak of, and although less clear and detailed, its far more relaxed perspective is in stark contrast to the incredibly harsh, analytical DT931 which I didnt find enjoyable to listen to at all.

It seems like the HD650 is also more sensitive and more forgiving than the HD600, whilst at the same time offering even more potential. IMO the HD650 looks the dogs danglies too...

 

There's no doubt they look good, Paul, and they're very comfortable. However, for my tastes, I can't live with this dullish Sennheiser family sound, which, to me, is reminiscent of having turned the tone controls on an old-fashioned amp all the way to bass. As for the "smoother and more natural midrange", this seems to me a bit like saying "what's twice nothing?" And as a classical listener, I don't need (or want) bass measurable on the Richter scale. I like the details that the Grados and the Beyers give, but, hey, everyone's different.

P.S. I didn't notice any difference between the HD600 and HD650, but that's certainly just me being underwhelmed by, to me, the overall disadvantage of their both being Sennheisers.

 

Hey tones, no probs man, although personally speaking I have to say that I didnt feel Sennheisers to sound that dull, although compared to many other headphones, they do indeed sound dull, but I believe I like their sound because I tend to listen to headphones loudish (in the 80+ db range) and anything bright tends to get annoying to these ears. Brightness in headphones is probably a lot more suited to brighter headphones. Like the DT931 for instance, I feel they would be ideal for low - medium volumes but for high volumes, they simply made my ears bleed. And because I wear headphones a LOT then they need to be comfortable too, and when I had the HD580 for a month I found them to be the most comfortable headphones I'd ever worn - sometimes I forgot they were on my head.

Also, the dullness you experience with Sennheisers has a lot to do with how they are amped. You dont say what amplifier was used to power them, and I'll apologise in advance if they were properly amped, but my experience is that properly amped, they lose some of their bias towards the bass and the veil is lifted from the sound. Improvements over the 600 by the 650 are said to be quite noticable on a properly amped system, and speaking personally, I LOVE bass and the Sennheisers do it quite a bit better than many phones I've owned in the past.

Still, thanks for the review, I am not having an argument - it is interesting to see how peoples opinions differ - I tried for a long time to stay away from the Sennheisers because I believed I'd be bored by them, but when I tried them after going through all other headphones and not liking them, I was quite surprised how good they sounded. I am probably going to pick up some HD650's soon, so I'll give my impressions in the future.

BTW tones, you should give the Sony MDR-CD3000 a try sometimes if you get the chance - I believe you might like those

 

The amplifier in the shop was some sort of Denon, which was used exclusively to run all the headphones in the Zihlmann headphone bar (about 25 pairs!). I use a Slee "Solo" II at home - perhaps Zihlmann will lend me their demo pair to try out over the weekend.

However, when checking out the B Minor Mass recommended by RdS, I noticed the same hole in the middle - much melody, much bass (especially timpani), but nothing in between - and that was also through Sennheiser headphones (a lesser pair with odd, inverted teardrop-shaped earpieces). This seems to suggest that this is a family trait that you either like or you don't.

And I'll cherck out the Sonys you mentioned. There was a couple of sets of Sony 'phones in the Zihlmann bar, but I didn't notice what they were. Must look at my old report on highfidelity.tk - I remember being impressed by some Sonys there.

P.S. Just looked - they were Sony MDR CD 480s.

 

Certainly, Sennheiser does seem to have a certain house sound - muscular, but easy going, bassy, warm and non-analytical nature, and after experiencing nearly a dozen pairs of headphones over the last year, I have begun to come to the conclusion that I think I like this sort of sound from headphones - strange because I quite like bright and upfront speaker systems, but my headphone tastes are different.

I'd be surprised if the CD3000 were available for you to try as I had to get mine from Japan, and this is a big problem for me auditioning headphones, and is why I believe I've gone through so many before finding ones I like - either the headphones you want arent available to try, or if they are, they have substandard amplification and sources to try it on, so I always end up buying blind. I just wish there were better facilities for demoing headphones and headphone amps.

 

Well I found a local store with a pretty good deal on these cans and I got to try them with the trusty X-Can 3 and a NAD C521BEE CD player, and I was quite impressed with what I heard, although I am pretty sure they werent burned in as they were the only pair in the shop and they had just got them in.

The familiar non fatiguing sound was there just as expected, along with skull rattling bass, and the headphones were grooving along well on this setup. Initially not as comfortable as the Sony's though, their clamping pressure at this early stage of their life is still a little too servere, and the pads feel somewhat cheaper than those on the Sony. Actually, despite being the same price, the Sony's look considerably more expensive than the HD650. In time though, I am certain their lighter frame will stretch perfectly to my head and will probably end up being more comfy than the Sonys, like I remember the HD580 being.

Once I took them off, the realisation that I had been a bit playful with the volume hit home, my ears ringing like buggery, although I did have the X-Can on -28 dB which is VERY loud. My ears were fatigued but only because of excessive volume, that being said the shop was a little on the noisy side, and wasnt the best environment to test these headphones. I am sure it will be easier to listen to them at home.

 

Well I've been listening to these cans for a whole night, and I have to say I think they are bloody wonderful headphones, so musical, powerful bass, quite forgiving too. I can see your point tones, they do seem to go for the music itself rather than the details, but i feel it highly detailed too, and they are indeed, as you correctly point out, great for rock, but also dance music too. To top it off, they are also highly natural sounding. I am amping them from an X-Can v3 which seems to be an excellent match.

The best headphones Ive ever heard without a shadow of a doubt. Anyone wanna buy some Sonys?

 

Funny, I thought they left out much of the music (for my tastes anyway)! But then, if we all thought or heard the same, we'd only have one of Sennheiser and Beyer! Glad you like them, Paul.

Zihlmann also had the Beyerdynamic DT880, "had" in the sense of "not any more". There was a place for them, but that socket was empty. These I gotta hear - moreover, they're considerably cheaper than the 650s.

 

I've had the DT880 as you may know, and I didnt get on with those, but I expect you'll quite like them, as our taste in headphones appears to me at least, to be polar opposites - I think you prefer cleaner sounding, brighter cans where as I think I prefer cans with a somewhat more relaxed, muscular perspective.

The DT880 certainly sounded "clearer" than the Senns but a bit bland and boring to my ears, and lacked much in the way of a bottom end.

It is interesting to see just how different tastes can be. Whats even more interesting is that, before I originally heard the 580's, I thought I'd really dislike Senns and it turns out to be the opposite.

 

Well after a few days of listening to the HD650, and there is a shock (but probably not a surprise) in store for you guys....

I've completely gone off them. In fact, the HD650's have made me enjoy my Sony's so much more I've literally completely fallen in love with the sound of the CD3000 now. So why the sudden change in heart?

Well I just think at the end of the day, the Sennheiser sound, whilst accurate and fairly groovy and musical, just isnt right for me. Whilst it is indeed unfatiguing, its just too held back for my tastes. Whilst I admit I am easily influenced by new toys (thinking they are better straight away), I admit I have never, EVER gone off anything so quickly as I have these. Typical innit, after just spending £250 notes on them. Mind you I shall no doubt get back most of the money, but the strange thing is its made me appreciate my Sony's a lot more.

Whats the key differences here? Well, I think the Sony's are perhaps slightly less detailed, but they are much more dynamic and punchy, the bass slam really impresses compared to the Senn. At first, the Senn seems to have more bass, but thats because you can turn it up louder because of the lack of any kind of brightness. The Sony's are brighter, and I felt them analytical, but thats just not the case really. In comparison, the Sony's sound cleaner and clearer, with far more energy to the sound.

And whilst I cannot put up with this all of the time, I had my Beyer DT531's for those times, and I find those more enjoyable than the HD650's as well.

Its strange how things turn out in the end.

I am not saying the 650's are bad headphones, just that they are not my cup of tea in the long run. I actually fell asleep listening to them the other day, and thats not a good thing as far as I'm concerned - theres no way that can happen with the Sonys.

We live and learn I guess....

 

"the lack of any kind of brightness"

That's exactly what I don't like about Sennheisers.

 

Hi

I have been using a pair of 650's for about a while now, previously I had a pair of K271(poor fit) and DT880 (to bright/siby), I use them with a World audio HD83 and I would say a good match, however when I have used them from sources such as attenuated amp O/P stages they sound crushed and small with virtually no dynamism, they have an excellent fit, side pressure a little over confident at the moment, and midrange is somewhat suppressed, the only other sennheiser's I have at the moment are a pair of HD265 and there is no comparison sound wise, all in all I' am pleased with them.

Stuart

 

Tones have you tried electrostatics?

I have the ERGO AMT (Jecklin Float),(Made in Switzerland), and while not strictly an electrostatic, behaves like one and sounds the same, these seem to have the full range of sound that you get from speaker, they are very fast, lots of detail, and super midrange, if there is bss on the track they do bass, if not then no bass, ie very transparent, they also run off the speaker outs(i'm using a micro integrated to drive mine, they need about 3 w/rms), the other benefit of them, is that they sit against the side of your head and your cheeks, so don't have the same problems with "deafness", you get with other cans, although they leak sound quite a bit, but remember, it's YOUR house not your daughters, the disadvantages, well amps can be a problem(did not want to introduce switching box into my main setup, although they are quite happy being driven by a cheap s/h integrated, run from tape out of main rig) and they are as ugly as sin, they are also pretty comfy, if you don't move about a lot.

Just a thought.

 

I have a pair of Jecklin Float 1s, AK, which I quite like, although I prefer the livelier, more detailed sound of the Beyers and Grados. They are also very comfortable, if bizarre-looking. In any case, my daughters regard me as being totally bizarre-looking even without headphones, so the appearance doesn't bother me. I still drag them out now and then for a listen (I was using them on Sunday evening for example).

And you try telling two monstrous 23 and 19 year-old hulks that it's your house! You have much to learn, my son...

 

Tones the Floats Air Motion Transfer are different from the ones, although they look the same they have drivers, that while strictly not electrostatic, behave as if they were, they do soiund pretty lively to these ears though.

Prcide make the Ergo's and they used to make the Floats for jecklin, they still make the 1 and 2 using conventional drivers, but the AMT's are prolly better seen as Earspeakers, £600 new but I got mine for a quarter of that thanks to ebay.

My Girls are only 3 and 9 so yes I have much to learn no doubt, but I always like to remind them that within these walls, there is no such thing as a democracy.

 

You're right, there never is, but somewhere along the line power changes hands!

 

No doubt one day you'll say "I told you so!"

Meant to include this link for your info

http://www.precide.ch/eng/eergo/ergo.htm