[Review] Shanling SCD-T200C

Discussion in 'Hi-Fi and General Audio' started by alanbeeb, Aug 5, 2004.

  1. alanbeeb

    alanbeeb Grumpy young fogey

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    Shanling SCD-T200C

    I've had this player for nearly three weeks now and finally think I'm beginning to get to grips with it. Its not like any other player I've heard and I've found it difficult to characterize. But basically, I like it!

    I am using it with my Lavardin IT amplifier and Quad 988 electrostatics. For interconnects I have been using Van den Hul the First and Second, the Second is slightly more precise sounding but the First a tiny bit warmer. Music has mainly been classical - big stuff by Brahms,Bruckner, Mahler etc, and chamber music by Brahms, Brahms, Brahms and Dvorak. oh and Shostakovich's Viola Sonata op147.

    Occasional forays into 'popular' music from Radiohead, Portishead, Beth Gibbon and PJ Harvey, and Burt Bacharach - I can't believe how good some of the 1960's recordings are, 1962 The Look of Love puts Dusty Springfield in the room.

    The machine itself looks like something from the forbidden planet... glowing valves and Blue LEDs. The acrylic disc platter cover is lit from within with a blue LED which I'm not sure is the best match for glowing orange valves. Blue LEDs next to the display indicate whether its playing CD or SACD.

    The display itself presents the absolute minimum of information, just track number and elapsed or remaining time per track. It has 4 brightness settings but cannot be turned off completely. The display is so small that you cannot read it anyway from more than a few feet away, unless you have eagle eyes.

    The remote control is heavy and solidly made from aluminium, and controls all functions and could control a matching amplifier. It also has controls for the variable output on the CD player. The player can be run straight into a power amp using this feature and the volume control applies to both sets of RCA outputs and the headphone output.

    Other reviews of the player have made much of the alleged high standard of build quality... not sure I can agree totally. I had to loosen one of the players feet before it sat straight on the rack. It looks a million dollars from a short distance away, but close up the panel gaps in various places would attract comment in a car magazine. In use, the open transport mechanism means that there can be a bit of noise from the player, especially so if playing a marked or scratched disc.

    Two pairs of valves drive the valve output stage and the built-in headphone output. The solid state outputs actually sound better IMO than the valve driven ones, which are a bit brittle and hard sounding. The built in headphone stage is superb. No need for a dedicated headphone amp.

    Overall the sound is big, warm, highly detailed and very involving. It is completely free from any digital leading edge, very smooth, I suppose some would say analogue sounding. But at the same time there is no lack of attack.

    The sound field is projected in the plane of the loudspeakers, neither forward nor recessed. Imaging is very good but not as much front to back depth as the Meridian G07 and G08 players I tried. It does not push the soundstage forward onto the listener - a trait I found could occur with the DAC64.

    Listening to big orchestral music, the soundstage is evenly presented left to right, with individual voices clearly identifiable and in a definable space. It does not 'seem' have as much bass weight and slam as either of the Meridian G series players, so orchestral works initially do not seem to have so much slam and impact. This leads to an impression that it has quite a light sound. After getting used to the sound what comes over is the naturalness of the presentation - nothing is forced or highlighted. While listening to a good recording of chamber music (vioin & piano or simiar) the piano is presented with full richness and depth, with lots of impact. The sound has lots of vibrancy and decay...listening to anything with cymbals, gongs, piano, choir is a joy.

    With SACD, everything just gets even better... the sense of ambience and acoustic space is superb. Unlike my previous Sony player, there is a clear advantage with SACD with no softness or lack of dynamics which beset the Sony.

    To compare with other players, the Meridian G series players had more bass weight and slam, and the G08 had more detail and three-dimensional imaging.

    The Chord DAC64 provides more upfront thrills, superb excitement and presence but can be too relentless.

    The Shanling seems to manage to compromise between these other players that I have auditioned. Its best features are the unforced naturalness of the presentation, the big left to right soundstage and the fact that it it doesn't make any discs I've tried so far unlistenable, which could occur with some recording on the G08 and DAC64. (I have never understood why some mag reviews point out that such and such a component will ruthlessly expose bad recordings, and seem to say this is a good thing!)

    Add to these the volume control, excellent headphone output and above all the superb SACD replay, and its a great machine, even at its UK price. You can get a grey import for something less than half of that!

    In conclusion, I think I have found the player I am going to be happy with for a while.... If a Chord DAC64 or a Meridian G08 were to be offered somewhere at a very good price I might just be tempted but probably not.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 5, 2004
    alanbeeb, Aug 5, 2004
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  2. alanbeeb

    Ken

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    Nice review alanbeeb.

    I am seriously considering purchasing a SCD T200C.

    I have not heard the new Meridians and not the Chord DAC 64.

    However I have a friend who has the DAC 64 he agrees with the 'in your face' sound stage type comment, but he would not swap his.

    The only thing I am hesitant about with the Shanling, is that the direct supply models are 220V, whilst I live in a 240Volt region. The power supply is not brilliant and can vary up to 256Volts. However I have never had any problems so far. (touches the head - nearest thing to wood).

    Austrlian versions are $3.8K (£1500) but they are 240Volt.

    Ken
     
    Ken, Aug 5, 2004
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  3. alanbeeb

    alanbeeb Grumpy young fogey

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    Ken - my one was imported direct from China and is the 220v model, my mains voltage is officially 240v but its been measured at 250v. the player has been on almost non-stop since I got it and no problems have occurred. There is a slight hum from the machine, don't know if this is normal or as a result of running it on the higher voltage.
     
    alanbeeb, Aug 5, 2004
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  4. alanbeeb

    Ken

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    alanbeeb - I thought that the voltage in UK dropped to 230 a couple of years ago.
     
    Ken, Aug 5, 2004
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  5. alanbeeb

    jesse

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    Hi Alanbeeb/Musicbox :D

    Since you are not posting this at HFC (don't blame you, all those stupid argument about cables :SLEEP: ), I am going to ask you over here.

    Your review of the Shanling SCD-T200 has made a lot of comparision between Shanling/Meridian G7/G8. While it is informative, I do like to know more how the Shanling sound compare to your old Sony SCD XA3000ES, as you know this is the player I am currently using. The Shanling seem to me is a logical choice to upgrade the Sony.... well it is either that or nothing (SACD player) under £2000!

    I mostly listen to vocalist so I do like to know how is the mid range of the Shanling compare to the Sony. From your review, you seem to think the Shanling is the more musical player, but the Meridian G7/G8 are more technically correct, am I right?

    Also what do you think of the Shanling's pre-amp section, have you tried connected it to a power amp? Could it be by pass?

    I probably (I am trying not to) wouldn't go for this generation of Shanling player, as your mention of build quality and voltage issue has put me off! However if ever you want to change it to the Meridian G7/G8 or DAC 64, I do be interested to buy it off you!


    Cheers

    Jesse
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 6, 2004
    jesse, Aug 6, 2004
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  6. alanbeeb

    alanbeeb Grumpy young fogey

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    Ah, my cover is blown! ;)

    Anyway... the difference between the Shanling and XA3000ES seemed to me to be this: the Sony is more recessed sounding, with midband in particular being projected behind the speakers leading to masking of some detail in compex recordings. As a result the Sony can sound a bit boring.

    Overall the XA3000ES is superb CD player for the money - £800 retail or £600 shopping around. But the Shanling presents everything equally without pushing it forward and suffers no digital edge on CD.

    On SACD the difference between the Shanling and Sony is even greater, I found the Sony was very recessed sounding & undynamic on SACD. The Shanling SACD playback is a huge improvement, with much more vitality and sparkle, and a much bigger soundstage.

    I would say that the Meridian Players and Chord DAC64 are very different in presentation from the Shanling and each other. You could say that the Shanling is smoother, more analog sounding than either.

    If I was only interested in CD playback I might have chosen either alternative. However, SACD is important to me so the Shanling became the obvious choice, especially as its CD playback is so good.

    If I did go for another CD player or DAC, it would be complementary to the Shanling and not a replacement.
     
    alanbeeb, Aug 6, 2004
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  7. alanbeeb

    Legzr1

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    Nice review Alan.
    I have one favour to ask of you...

    Could you get a lend of Metallica : Master of Puppets on CD and give it a whirl through your system? (apologise to the speakers for me). :)
     
    Legzr1, Aug 6, 2004
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  8. alanbeeb

    alanbeeb Grumpy young fogey

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    I doubt I could give you an objective opinion on that one... :D
    If that's your taste in music - what do you want SACD for?! :rolleyes:

    For the record... I quite liked Metallica's song for Mission Impossible II... but thats as far as it goes!
     
    alanbeeb, Aug 6, 2004
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  9. alanbeeb

    Legzr1

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    Errrr,you mean Limp Bizkits song from Mission Impossible II ? :D
    It's not all thrash in household Legz - anything + everything goes but I draw the line at plinky plonk jazz and opera. :JPS:
     
    Legzr1, Aug 6, 2004
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  10. alanbeeb

    ditton happy old soul

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    (enter stage left)

    Since Alan is admitting that his cover is blown, let me lift the lid some more:

    Alan has a very impressive collection of classical music, so much so that I'm educating myself with his cast-off duplicates (now, I'm back from hols in the Orkneys, I'll get back to the listening again). This may mean that he has a 'good ear' but I think he may be being polite in his comment about other music genre!

    edit: and he has a fair amount of opera, if that's the give-away. He tolerated some of my jazzand accoustic stuff though - unless he was being ultra polite for a supposed grump!
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 7, 2004
    ditton, Aug 7, 2004
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  11. alanbeeb

    alanbeeb Grumpy young fogey

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    The Opera discs are mainly Mrs Beeb's... apart from the Wagner!

    How you getting on with the discs Ditton? Any revelations or happy discoveries?
     
    alanbeeb, Aug 7, 2004
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  12. alanbeeb

    bottleneck talks a load of rubbish

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    Alan, its interesting that you prefer the solid state output of the Shanling to the valve output. Ive heard this from other Shanling owners/reviews too.

    It will be interesting to see from other people on ZG who might read this review if they also prefer the solid state output.

    If it turns out to be universal, it seems a shame that they dont produce a lower priced version of the player without the valve option.

    Its also interesting that you describe the valve output as brittle and hard. I suppose you have fun ahead with valve changing to get different sounds, and component changes in the valve output to change the sound (should you want to go this route).

    It certainly seems odd that a hard and brittle sound is reached from the valves, as this isnt what I would normally expect.

    For valve rolling, try some NOS mullards, or another british quality valve. Try a russian valve if money is tight. Some chinese valves may be ok - but its hard to know, and they can tend towards the hard sound. Ditto with american valves imo - detailed and clear - it sounds like you want something more mellow.

    Finally, some valve suppliers test their valves (for microphony for example) and this really is a worthwhile practice as quality varies so much with new and old valves alike.

    The good news is the valves in the shanling are not that dear, and you can pick up replacements typically from 5-20 each.

    I heartily reccomend
    Langrex Supplies
    Wilson Valves
    Watford Valves
    and for tested valves CVC (chelmer valve company).

    I know Lilolee uses www.tube-town.de for foreign valve purchases.

    I hope some of that was helpful, apologies if it was old hat.
    Cheers
    Chris
     
    bottleneck, Aug 7, 2004
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  13. alanbeeb

    alanbeeb Grumpy young fogey

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    This could be worthwhile info - I use the headphones about 25% of the time so trying different valves in the the headphone stage might produce some benefits. Thanks, Alan
     
    alanbeeb, Aug 7, 2004
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  14. alanbeeb

    Legzr1

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    Sure is purrdy :)
     

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    Legzr1, Aug 8, 2004
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  15. alanbeeb

    alanbeeb Grumpy young fogey

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    A couple of other threads at present are talking about the shanling players.... just to to report that I have trying using mine to drive a power amp direct..... best results obtained when using a pre-amp. Using the onboard volume control seems to harden the sound and reduce the imaging, the more volume control you apply, the worse it is. Its not a problem with the Graaf 50/50 valve power amp as it only needs about 76 (from 96 down to 0) on the volume control to be at my preferred level, but the alternative PS Audio HCA-2 needs to be set around 50 or its too loud, and then the hardening becomes quite apparent.

    So I'll be using a pre-amp.

    I have also been trying an external DAC with the Shanling, and have achieved excellent results with an Electrocompaniet ECD-1 currently on loan. Its around £1000 mark, not sure if the improvement it brings is worth it yet as CD replay is already not bad. The performance is at very least as good as Meridian G08 if not better and as invigorating as the DAC64 without any hint of being too in-your-face.
     
    alanbeeb, Sep 2, 2004
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  16. alanbeeb

    dunkyboy

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    Alan, if I may butt in...

    Where may I ask is the Electrocompaniet on loan from? I'm currently shopping around, looking at different sources (mainly out of curiosity, but if I hear something really good then I might just go for it). I had a recent shootout between my Meridian 507, a Naim CD5, and an Arcam CD93 (see HERE) but neither of them made me want to give up my Meridian, so I'm curious to hear some more alternatives. I've not heard anything from Electrocompaniet, so if you don't like it I may well like to try it out...

    Come to think of it, we should have a mini-Edinburgh bake-off I reckon! Get Ditton in on it too, if he's up for it. I'd be happy to host, or would be happy to bring my Meridian around to yours or Ditton's for a comparison... (Anyone else you can think of that might be interested?) What do you say?

    Dunc
     
    dunkyboy, Sep 5, 2004
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  17. alanbeeb

    alanbeeb Grumpy young fogey

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    Edinburgh bake off would be good! I'm on hols next weekend for 2 weeks, so maybe in October?
    Anyway.... The electrocompaniet DAC is no longer on loan.... I bought it!
    I had it from Kevin Galloway Audio in Kilmarnock, I've been going back to him for years now as he has always done good service for me and as he knows me quite well he is very generous with loans etc.
    Apparently the Electrocompaniet stuff is difficult to get hold of - I had to wait 3-4 months for this one. Kevin's also got the CD player, it uses the same DAC and output stage as in the standalone DAC but the DAC has bigger power supplies. Its quite a rich sound and I think its in the same league as the meridian G08 that I had on loan a few months back. You would certainly be welcome to A-B your 507 with it, but probably can't arrange something until I'm back from hols.
     
    alanbeeb, Sep 5, 2004
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  18. alanbeeb

    dunkyboy

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    Okay, no problem, October sounds good to me. :) Just need to round up some more Edinburgh hifi nuts...

    What say you, Ditton?

    Dunc
     
    dunkyboy, Sep 7, 2004
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  19. alanbeeb

    ditton happy old soul

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    OK, Alan told me about this when I allowed him to educate me about areas of music previously vague.

    The Dax Decade now has its Black Gates that are nicely burning in, and the Ncode option on the modded transport is interesting. I'd be happy to host, but would also be willing to travel. Perhaps we could prompt Crustyloaf to join us.

    I guess the ATM's are in the frame - might be an interesting pairing with the AudioSynthesis front end. But Alan has some wow components ...
     
    ditton, Oct 1, 2004
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