Riverside P2 phono stage - anyone heard of it?

Having decided I didn't like the sound of my Musical Fidelity X-LPS phono stage (after hearing it side-by-side with the built-in phono stage of my friend's MF A1 amp and prefering the A1.... the XLPS is for sale in the classifieds section if you're interested!), I've got a model on loan from the local 2nd hand hifi joint. It's from a British company I've never heard of called Riverside, that apparently used to advertise in some of the hifi mags in the late 90s, early 00s.

The model is the P2, and it's a beast of a phono stage, looking more like a small valve power amp! I heard it briefly in the shop (in conjunction with an SME 20, Neat Ultimatum MFS, and a big ass EAR valve uber amp) and it sounded lovely, and I think I preferred it to the sound of the EAR's built-in phono stage (which is nothing to scoff at!)

I've now got it at home, comparing it to the XLPS. It definitely sounds better (and easily cures my main problem with the MF - namely an artificial "softening" of the sound that I find distracting), and I'm tempted to go for it. Two issues: one, it easily outclasses the rest of my deck (see sig). And two, the dealer's asking for 200 quid for it.

The first issue isn't much of an issue, as in the 5 months I've owned a record deck I've quickly become a bit of a vinyl fan, and have amassed a reasonable collection (with no intention of slowing down!) As such I intend to upgrade at least the deck (an antique Planar 2) and possibly the cart (an Ortofon 520 Mk II) in the very near future. And I also have no problem investing in a high quality phono stage that will last me a good long time with no need to upgrade it (rather do it this way than upgrade in small increments, if you see what I mean).

But the 2nd issue I think I need some help with. Is it worth 200 quid? It'll be at least 4 or 5 years old I believe, maybe more. It's a phono stage so the valves should last some time, and there's no audible signs of valve problems. And it's from this no-name company. I have no problem going for a no-name brand if it sounds the part, but I'm just trying to gauge whether the price is fair. Anybody heard of the company? If I wanted to sell it on I imagine I'd have a hard time of it, but then again the point of the purchase is that I don't intend to sell it on!

I must admit, I'm a bit smitten by the little bugger. It's got so much character (physically, I mean, not sonically ), and it sounds great (though my TT is really holding it back). But 200 quid is a lot to spend on a phono stage (even considering I should be able to get 100 quid or more for my XLPS), so I'm a bit undecided.

Any thoughts?

Pictures below.

Dunc

 

The Riverside P2:


My hifi, as of 17-04-05, with Riverside P2 tucked unceremoniously on top of the Meridian 200...:

 

If it were me I think I'd go for it. A proper valve phono stage which on your listening beats the XLPS and the EAR ... for £200 notes ... sounds like a bit of a bargain to me. I'd get it then when funds allow get a better cart and mod the arm. Lots of tweakery currently available for both Rega arms and decks.

 

Yeah I'd probably go for it too but not before doing a proper tinternet search to see if theres anything listed. The only worry I'd have is reliability. £200 sounds like a good price though.

EDIT: just had a quick look and couldn't find anything, didn't really dig though. I'd probably go with it anyway but would still have a proper look if it was my money

 

So far as I can tell Google only comes up with a single reference to Riverside Audio and that's on an out of date cached page. They are (or rather were - they no longer have a website and I'm guessing no longer exist) a manufacturer of kit amps.

Anex you are probably right to take a good look - if its well put together I'd definitely go for it, but if it all looks a bit bodged under the lid maybe pass. The warranty will be long past anyway, but as a kit amp, I should think it would be pretty straightforward from a repairs point of view should anything go wrong.

 

Ask on the forum at http://www.worldaudiodesign.co.uk/ somebody there is bound to have heard of Riverside, it's a forum full of valve kit-heads.

£200 doesn't sound unreasonable for a valve phono stage, but you'll probably find it unsellable when you inevitably feel the urge for a change, whereas around £350 for a secondhand EAR 834P switchable MM/MC stage would buy you something that also sounds excellent, will handle low-output MCs with ease, and will be sellable for exactly what you paid for it when the time comes to change.

I'd pass, in other words.

-- Ian

 

It's worth mentioning that I want rid of the MF asap, as its sound bothers me - so I'm going to get another phono stage anyway. And 200 quid is at the very top of my budget, so as much as I'd like to, I just can't afford to go to 350 for the EAR.

Cheers for the replies, guys - will check out the WAD site.

Dunc

 

The Ear isn't worth that imo, it sounds slow and wooly, I'd go for what you have and for £350 you could have a WAD stage which would destroy the Ear.

 

ho ho ho, that sounds like modern mf all right, softening the sound.

the ear is ok, but a bit soft, too, not quite my cup of tea for a valve phono stage, the transformers are not so hot either for the mc version.

ears line pre is much better, but exactly the same circuit, so

I don't know how mf do it, I had 3 modern mf amps of totally different designs, and yes they both softened the sound, I love the build, but the sound I don't.

not heard of the above one, but there are loads of mm phono stages from china which look really well made, consonance and meixing, are the pick for quality, tho they are all good, all good prices, some on ebay.

check out cattylink, ridulous prices

bob's right, problems if you come to sell it, but looks ok, also, bear in mind valves can go noisy, but these are easy, just pop them out and in, circuits can need resistors or caps changing if they get too old/noisy, so that could cause probls in not too long if its 15 yrs old.

plenty of valves there, not sure what they do....from a bit of researching the chinese ones lately, they have some valves as regulators for the psu, which is pretty crazy stuff, you don't see that except on more expensive ones.

also bear in mind you could be hearing the a1 phono stage through the a1 amp which is a superb wait for it....tim de para design, so you may not be comparing like with like.

quick web search reveals this, website unobtainable, however...look down near the bottom, seems like they are one of these weird and wonderful one man bands that pop up ,only to disappear without trace

http://216.239.59.104/search?q=cach...de-audio.demon&hl=en&start=1&client=firefox-a

other alternatives are, get the phonostage for the atc, but I think someone had rf problems, I am well impressed with graham slee's budget offerings, or what the hell and buy it!!

be interested to know the valves and an internal pic?

 

Definitely leaning towards buying it - and having heard what a good TT can do I'm tempted to batter the Visa card and get the Nottingham Analogue Horizon that was tucked away in the corner of the 2nd hand shop as well.......!

Data, the valves are:

Golden Dragon "12AT7A/E81CC"
Golden Dragon "E83CC-01"
Golden Dragon (unlabeled)
Philips 6BL8 x2
Mullard "EC? 81" (where the ? is a character that's been smudged off so I can't tell what it is, and the 8 could in fact be a 'B'...)

I would open 'er up but it would require a strange little key/screwdriver of very tiny proportions and with an oddly shaped head, so can't really do that...

Dunc

 

Any chance of some close shots of the tubes? As a complete guess I'd say your unlabled could be another E83 but without seeing its hard to know.
It would really be worth opening though, take it b&q and find the right tool. Could it be torque or star or something?

 

Could be Mullard ECC81.



-- Ian

 

from a very wild guess, I would say it has solid state rectification, I haven't looked up the valve details,

I think it is a valve regulated supply with all those extra valves,

and a 3 valve phono circuit, yes that extra one will no doubt be an ecc81.

guess at the circuit....marantz model 7 a al tim de paras 834p.

could be wrong tho' I could draw it out if I had the chance...

have a REALLY close look at the unlabelled one, it may either be feint, or you may be able to tell if the internal structure looks identical to one of the others, chances are its ecc83 or 81, but without tracing the circuit out I don't know what its job in the circuit is.

interesting little fella...

 

Hi,

I have heard of the Riverside audio P2. One of the mags reviewed it years ago. Not sure which one and when it was. I would take a stab at sometime during the 90s.

If you like it, give it a go. I agree, selling may be a problem but not always (Ebay). See if you can get the price down.


SCIDB

 

If nothing else I'm pretty sure the guy will be willing to take it back if I ever want to upgrade - provided I upgraded to something he sells.....

Dunc

 

hiya.

well Im sold on valve phono stages. phono stages per se can make/break vinyl imho

disagree strongly on anti- 834p comments, but its all a matter of taste!

re-sale value of the riverside is a factor, but at 200 pounds.. and if you like it... ? another judgement call really.

how much is the horizon? - could be good if the money is right.

 

My phono stage costs a shed load less than the 834 but would cream it in every way. Therefore I can slate it all I want

 

nah.

you mis-judged it. It was just held back by it's ancillaries

 

...what about some of the valve phono stages currently being offered on ebay such as:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=73369&item=5768287396&rd=1

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=14968&item=5745122361&rd=1

Anyone on here actually tried these units out?

 

Au Contrare, I propose you mis-judged it with your ancillaries I spend alot of time with the ear, it does music but not alot else, sounds like vintage gear and it shouldn't at that price. If you ever get a chance to hear or build NickG from WAD's phono circuit (its on the board) go for it, that is what a real tube stage can do, I don't think you could buy that sound.