Robbo is the King of Hifi

Steven, this is heading into stalker/serial killer territory. Seriously weird.

The emotion thing is (IMO) "kid's stuff" for want of a better expression. You can hear it quite clearly on a car radio, and expensive hi-fi equipment is not required. But the hi-fi reviewers/people on the Naim forum love talking about it, which is why, I guess, you do too.

 

I'm assuming you've heard that difference? I'll try the changes again, this time with another (audiophile) friend of mine present but I really doubt we'll hear anything. You're the first person I've heard to claim not only that there is an audible difference but be able to describe it.

The main reason I swapped back and didn't just leave it "correct" is so that when I'm watching DVDs my fronts aren't out of phase with my centre and surrounds (which are driven by a different amp) but I suppose I could always switch the phase on those speakers aswell to keep everything the same. Then I'd have the wrong absolute phase for movies and the right one for music - the preferable scenario if it really does make a difference, which I seriously doubt.

Nice to see you making constructive comments Paul Last time this topic came about you talked about speakers "sucking" instead of "pushing" - a completely nonsensical thing to say. Take a look at a bass drum sound in a .WAV editor and you'll see there are pretty equal amounts of sucking and pushing

Michael.

 

I had a play with a Mark Levinson CD player that had the facility to switch the phase around. I couldn't tell any difference.

Similar experience with an XPS vs XPS2, and more recently the new Naim burndy cable. Both of these items are getting rave reviews on a forum near you.

The mags and dealers train us to perceive differences which aren't really there.

 

Yes, I've definitely heard it! When you think about it you want the initial transient thwack of a drum to go out, not in, so it makes perfect sense that there is a difference to be heard.

Not my quote, though I have to admit Chord amps have left me totally unimpressed whenever I've heard them…

Tony.

 

Just adopting the house style.

I was grazing some books last night and I came across an apposite tale, which I'm paraphrasing,

"An astronomer, physicist and mathematician were travelling on a train to see the Devil in Glasgow. Near their destination they glanced out of the window and saw a black sheep in a field. 'How interesting' said the astronomer, 'Scottish sheep are black!'. The physicist responded 'No, no, no! Some Scottish sheep are black.' The mathematicion rolled his eyes and clarified 'In Scotland there exists at least one field containing at least one sheep, at least one side of which is black'"

I've heard differences with abolute polarity changes. There is biological evidence that the ear passes signal polarity to the brain at low frequencies and tests have been done that show that polarity differences with specifically crafted signals are reliably audible. This puts absolute phase onto a whole other plane of righteousness compared to cable differences, cable directionality, stands and various snake oils.

There are too many 'astronomers' round the hifi world, IMO....

Paul

 

Gross Exagerations in Glasgow.

I suppose a heightened sense of realism is weird if the "listener" wanted the real person in the room. The (almost) auditive hologram will suffice thanks.

 

There's an American guy, Clark Johnsen, author of a book called "The Wood Effect" wo is famous for being able to walk into a room and being able to tell, on appropriate records, whether they're played in phase or in reverse phase. Haven't read much about him lately, though.

The "appropriate records" qualifier above is due to the fact that on many commercial recordings, absolute phase is all over the place. Multi-miking means that on a given track, quite often, some instruments are recorded in phase and some in reverse phase; for many records, it is little wonder that one can hear zilch-all difference after a polarity reversal.

It also seems that some listeners are more sensitive to changes in absolute phase than others. I belong to the have-never-heard-a-difference faction, but there's enough evidence to convince me that at least some sheep in Scotland are black, i.e., some people are able to detect absolute phase. I have never done a controlled experiment with a single-mike recording, so I don't really know whether I would hear it or not. But I'm not troubled by it.

 

Arh Paul, your presence makes my day grow ever more forfilled Knowing that the MD here makes you look like a mana salesman in the clover period??, his sceptisum, makes Yours and Tones seem like teaching 10 Y.O. south London boys to steal motors
It's also good to see so much good honest bonfire dousing going on, it makes you want to crack open a tin of Special brew, good work guys, bravo, bravo, encore :respect:

 

Tony, I usually manage to decipher what you're (in the broadest sense of the word) communicating, but this leaves me baffled.

 

Sorry - cut & paste cock up. Now corrected. I've never heard any Chord amps (except for the ones at the Heathrow show where it was impossible to make a quality judgement) but I haven't heard many good things about them.

Michael.

 

To conclude this tale:

" The mathematicion rolled his eyes and clarified 'In Scotland there exists at least one field containing at least one sheep, at least one side of which is black." Whereupon everyone else dropped dead from boredom, even the sheep which was indeed black on one side and pink on the other.

 

Markus, (human version for you good self)

Our Parent company MD, is more of a total non believer/sceptic, anti-anything unless it's written in stone type person, more than either Paul Ranson & Tones times 10, so the merest hint of Paul posting ,is a more of an easy run The comparsion with south Londons youths, is a simple one, the born with the ability to 'Liberate motors from birth' hope this helps Markus

 

More than a passing chance from lack of lower freqency extension & drive Alex, whilst also failing the Tune/Timing dem miserably too

 

Showing that patient mathematicians get deeper insights into the true nature of Scottish sheep?

Paul

 

Paul,

I would prefer to leave deep insights into the true nature of sheep to our Welsh residents.

 

Hi Mike,

Ive only really played with one (SPM1200) - - and bear in mind my ideal sound is a valve amp...

I found it powerful, yet somehow it left me cold and uninvolved. I didnt like it in the system I heard it in at all.

The DAC 64 is entirely different in my opinion, and offers a very different style of presentation. I think its very very good.

I certainly think that the DAC64 is 'not what you would expect' if you have heard their amps only, and does not have a sound I would associate with the amp I heard.

Conversations with SCIDB and WM have generally lead to agreement in the difference in the presentation.

Chris

 

Just goes to show how low many peoples expectations are of the mass of so-called HiFi.

To return to the original post, I'm impressed that Mick should admit this publicly, but am frankly appalled that anyone would failed to have noticed it.

So many times I've walked into a room to immediately state the 'speakers are out of phase - maybe I'm unusually sensitive to it?

In fact wandering around the room is a good way for the untrained ear to hear this - you'll often get odd 'phasey' effects that seem to inhabit your head and gross changes in tonality if any drive units or speakers are out of phase.

Mick,

ANY decent equipment manufacturer goes to great efforts to preserve phase information, Naim do it as much as anyone, maybe even more so.

It's not possible for something to sound 'good' when one speaker is out of phase, irrespective of who makes the kit.

I strongly suggest that before you try to strongly criticise others views, you are sure of the facts yourself, or steer clear of expressing such views.

Andy.

 

Mick,

Were all the drive units wired out of phase, or just the bass units? maybe that could explain why not everyone noticed.

 

Robbo

The XLR connector on the speaker cable was soldered by the previous owner in reverse.

I do not know how that effects the drivers at all.

Regards

Mick

 

ah so it was the cables not the internal speaker wiring. In that case the whole speaker would have been out of phase