Room equalization with TMREQ...

I didn't hear significant ressonances in my golden ratio listening room, really ...

But yesterday I got TMREQ, and did a first, "quick" setup by ear, I boroughed a sound meter, but it isn't accurate with bass...

The room needed -12db around 48hz, -9 around 79hz plus an odd fix here and there, funny the right front, (near the bookshelf), and the surrounds, have far less problems than subs, front left and center, I didn't try to make everything completely flat, just ironed the most audible peaks...

From perliminary tests, switching it on and off, I imediately noticed everything clearer, particularly male voices better defined, orchestra also sounds more detailed, as expected bass is the largest improvement... :MILD:

Next weekend Michael will help me with is laptop + ETF, and we will follow-up this report... :beer:

 

Could you add some more details about what you're using, the software etc, I'm curious.

 

Good to hear you are getting on well Antonio

Just for reference, I would not suggest trying to get a ruler flat frequency response, the result is usually aneamic in the bass and rather sterile.

Most people seem to enjoy a room curve that gently slopes down from bass to treble, the idea being to remove the worst room peaks. Nulls of course are another issue!!

I thank you

 

This is the software included in TAG's new AV processors, you can read more about it in their page...

TAG McLaren Room EQualiser

The perfect home cinema system reproduces exactly what has been recorded - unfortunately no system can achieve this, as the pressure waves emitted from the speakers interact with the listening room, enhancing some frequencies and cancelling out others.

These phenomena have been known about for a long time, but could not be effectively overcome because of cost or inconvenience.

This is no longer the case...

TMREQ, TAG McLaren's Room EQualiser is most likely the most sophisticated room acoustics correction program found in any THX Ultra2 certifed processor today. It allows you to compensate for many of the detrimental influences of your room.

... it easily pays for itself

Have you ever asked yourself if you should replace your speakers, subwoofer or electronics because you found your system's performance boomy and imprecise?

Quite possibly, this behaviour isn't caused by your components but their interaction with your room.

TMREQ helps to resolve this problem for you!

TMREQ is a comprehensive, 8-channel, 96kHz/24-bit audio equalisation package that allows you to compensate for the detrimental influences of room acoustics and loudspeaker response, producing a sound field that is far more natural and faithful to the original production.

TMREQ modifies the signal sent by the AV32R to your speakers in such a way that the pressure waves emitted from your speakers, combined with the interactions of your room, add up to the sound initially recorded. Room effects can be dramatically reduced, resulting in sound improvements not possible otherwise.

Great care has been taken to provide exceptional precision, whilst our algorithms have been tailored to maintain true fidelity. TMREQ will allow you to understand and correct many of your room's deficiencies - make use of it or ask your retailer to set it up for you.

TMREQ is real fun and probably the most cost-effective and powerful upgrade you have ever made to your system!

You don't need to be an expert to apply TMREQ, just visit our Club and read everything on the subject there, to learn about Room EQ and how to apply TMREQ. Just follow the steps outlined and your room will sound better than ever before...

You can never have enough power... TMREQ became possible because of the incredible processing power of the AV32Rbp-192 'THX Ultra2'.

Room treatment is an alternative to an electronic equaliser - unfortunately to correct low frequencies the acoustic devices need to be very large and are very difficult to tune precisely, resulting in attenuation outside the desired range...

 

Merlin,

This was just my first attempt, today I will play some more with it, but I will try to keep it simple...

And I did increase the level of the subs a bit, so far it sounds very good... :MILD:

 

I think there speaks the voice of experience.

Oh go on then. What's TM REQ then and how come you need a laptop to set it up? I'm guessing (or rather I think) it's some kind of room equalisation software addition to their AV32.

Surely most TAG stuff has enough processing power in them these days to qualify as artificial intelligence. I guess all they need now is a PS2 socket on the front for a keyboard. Would make getting all the s/w revisions in easier I'm sure :JOEL: ( )

This is tongue in cheek, I like TAG. I don't know what I'd do for red book cd replay without them. Reading the TAG forum though, I do start to wonder what the devil it is they're doing.

Antonio

On their forum a couple of weeks a go or so, I noticed a number of posts by your good self. Did they sort you out OK in the end?

Cheers

PS Sorry, as I was writing this, you answered most of the questions in it already!

 

They found a problem with a batch of processor boards, hopefully it has been corrected, I am keeping my fingers crossed...

I didn't need a laptop, did it just using my ears, but with the laptop and ETF I can get more detail to work with...

For instance I need to know the exact DB difference + the points where it is half, to calculate Q, wich should be equal to the freq I am correcting divided by the difference between those two points, example:

To correct a 10db peak at 50hz where we have 5db at 45 hz and 55hz, Q should be 50 / (55 - 45) = 5...

I like the results I got using my ears, but I am sure they are very imprecise, who cares...

 

Hi Antonio

On that basis I think I too would be happy to go with the old "If it sounds good it is good". The measurements could be interesting though, I suppose you'll just have to resist the temptation to change it too much if you like the sound already.

TAG did seem helpful from what I followed on their forum. I hope this one holds out for you OK. The problem is once you've had a couple go wrong, you start expecting it to happen and it kills some of the enjoyment of using the stuff. The good thing is if they've identified a cause, they can rectify it, and not send out another similarly afflicted one.

Good luck with it.

Cheers

 

This thread links in with a thought I have been having for some time, namely the attitude so called audiophiles have to the use of tone controls.

It seems to me that tone controls got a really bad rap many years ago, the backlash against them led by the likes of Linn and Naim left an indelible mark on the psyche of hifi buffs the world over. These british companies were able to show that the straight line approach to reproduction resulted in vastly superior sound to the japanese products of the day, weighed down with graphic equalisers and loudness buttons.

I could not argue with the findings, after all the additional complex analogue circuitry required was bound to degrade the signal. The sad thing is that these preconceptions still live on, despite a complete change in the technology used in most hifi systems today.

My point is that the old audiofool arguement has no place in the digital world. I for one would consider a hifi system without tone controls to be too compromised for my needs. How many CD's do you own that sound too bright, or harsh, or lacking in body and bass weight? From the reports I see, many complain of such problems, the result being a loss of potential musical enjoyment. People talk of high end equipment being too revealing for listening to poor recordings, the truth is it is rarely the recording that is at fault, far more often it is that the disc is badly mastered and the frequency response altered for low fi replay.

Now the hifi world seems to have accepted digital manipulation such as oversampling, upsampling and interpolation very readily, but tone controls are still taboo. What these people seem to ignore is that the technology is basically the same. Modern day tone correction is performed in the digital domain, usually at a far higher resolution than redbook CD, utilising programmed DSP's. Provided it is carried out prior to the DAC stage, a properly designed programme should have no detrimental affect on sound quality. The benefits are huge, the ability to correct for the compromises made by the mastering engineer, and to tailor the sound to your requirements, this leading to greater musical pleasure from badly mastered discs.

An example for me is "Breakfast in America" from Supertramp on CD. This is an early digital remaster, and sounds thin, edgy and harsh on most systems. All I needed to do was add 3db at 100hz with a Q of 0.2 octaves and the album came alive, body and soul restored to this classic album.

So I feel it's time that many audiofools stopped the ostrich impressions and revisited this subject. They may then be able to get the same levels of enjoyment from their entire CD collection

I thank you

 

Good Point Merlin

I agree, infact I think that some albums are so bad that even the traditional old analogue bass and treble controls have a place for 10-20% of the recordings I have. That's without playing any of the 200 or so cassettes I have.

I think the "Listen to it unadulterated; the way the artist / producer intended" is highly over rated. Should I get William Orbit over to endorse my system before I play another Madonna album, just in case the whole thing is so far out from what he intended even tone controls couldn't help ?

Perhaps he would be more interested in the spirit of the recording rather then absolute fidelity anyway.

Please stop me if I start sounding like a FE'er... I don't think I am

Oh well, Pancake forum here I come.

Cheers

 

Should have stuck with Quad, they still carry equalisation and a sort of tone control, it Tilts the frequency balance. Quite effective realy in the right circumstances.

 

I spent a couple more hours fiddling with TMREQ, incredible how the system sounds, so clear, "unboxed", no matter how loud, I never hear the room... :MILD:
:kneel:

This are my settings, look a little strange, but it is the way, to my ears, to get rid of the most noticeable peaks and deaps...



Couldn't resist and had another go at simplifying my settings...

 

Nice one Antonio, and I would of course concur

Taking many of the room's "contribution" out of the equation just gives you all the holgraphic imaging and natural detail that was previously disguised by those horrible room modes. And yes, it sounds great at any level

I spent months of tweaking to get the response I wanted, added some groove courtesy of Teac and Shunyata, and was able to give up the box shifting for the first time in 20 years. I now realise the futility of spending shedloads on boxes without addressing any major room problems first.

I see that you have applied 6db boost at certain frequencies. What does TAG say about that, and about the power demands that this incurs Any chance of digital clipping?

 

They say we should not correct deaps, but they where there, and I used the 6db available to try to fix it, couldn't resist...

I don't think their is any clipping, there is a lot of power in those sharcs, as for the powers and speakers, what I relieve is a lot more then those small boosts... :JPS:

I know what you mean, I always had the TAG DVD and the Brystons SST on my mind, I don't anymore... :beer:

 

"All I needed to do was add 3db at 100hz with a Q of 0.2 octaves and the album came alive"

I just turn the bass up...

I disagree that tone controls went out of fashion. The manufacturers stopped producing them on hifi. My Peavey Kosmos helps put the balls back on wimpy CD versions of 70s rock

Graham C

 

For details of TMREQ check out the Tag site: www.tagmclaren.com

The room measurement software António's referring to is ETF 5.x by ETF acoustic which is remarkably easy to use and setup provided you have a laptop with the right type of soundcard (most do). All you need extra is a decent mic (or SPL meter with line out) and a few cheapie long run ICs to hook up the laptop and all the gubbins to your hifi.

I used to to great effect in helping me setup my sub.

Michael.