Rumble noise from the platter

Sorry to keep banging on about turntables this will be my last thread on the topic!

Basicaly as I was playing some records before I couldn't help noticing that my Project Debut II has more rumble than my mums Yamaha deck. The Project is by the far the better deck, although I havent tested the Yamaha on my system for a direct sound quality comparsion, there is a lot less crackles and pops on the project.

However I can't help wondering if somthing needs re-adjusting on my project to help reduce the rumble. Woudl removing the slip mate help? or would playing a record on a bare steel platter damage the records? I am guessings it just that the turntable is not that great at isolating vibarations, and the Yamaha's cartridge is not good enough to pick this up.

 

Both may be right.

The slip mat? should provide a firm grippysurface for the record. If in doubt nip down to Wilco and get a roll of none slip matting the sort you would put on a bench or a tray, it comes in a varriety of nice colours cost about £5 a roll. It has a rubbery texture and looks like a honey comb from above. Cut to the size of the old mat and replace [use one of the hole for the spindle]. This mat shold provide a small ammount of isolation and a grippy surface contact for the record.

Did you get the project as a kit ?

Rumble is normally bearing orientated, it may just be that the bearing need so new oil or more oil [synthetic 20/70ish ] just add a couple or three drops and see if it makes a difference.

Just lifting the bearing and resaeting may cure it, is it a captive ball type bearing ?

If you have a Decathalon near you, you can get a butyl camping mat this is about half an inch thick and bright red in colour. It will be ideal to make DIY isolation pads, cut a number of discs about 3-4 inch diameter and glue two together these are then placed under the feet of your TT, if the TT is heavy use more layers and increase the dia of the disc. If your TT is on a support place a sheet of this under the shelf between shelf and support[unless spiked], so the shelf is isolatedand damped. Also the base of the TT could be covered to provide extra damping

All these will hopefully reduce the ammount of transmited vibration.

A stethescope is a valuable tool, you can listen to the TT and to the effect of adding damping or isolation. Most doctors get given these as freebies and it should be quite easy to get hold of one.

 

I didn't rate my Debut II at all for sound - but one thing it didn't do was rumble... If yours didn't do it originally I'd say Zanash's theory on the bearing/oil thing might be on the money - try lifting the sub platter very slightly then allow it to settle for a couple of hours - if it still rumbles put a SMALL bit of oil in - I know Rega don't suggest overfilling the bearing as it'll cause wow - so I'd imagine Project would have similar warnings.

Of course, the belt itself might be dirty and thus not produce smooth torque over the sub platter, thus causing rumble...

 

Maybe also worth checking the motor. It could be dying. I would clean out the bearing and reapply fresh oil.

 

I'm not sure whether the Pro-Ject you have is similar to the next few up in the range , but if so you have removed the transit screws that hold the motor in place ?
The motor should just be supported/suspended by a rubber band in normal use.
The main bearings in these TT's are relatively easy to access. Be careful which type of oil you use , the bearing cavity is lined with a white plastic material that might be Teflon/PTFE but i can't be certain. I used a light silicon based oil ( electronic lubricant) the last time i overhauled a Pro-Ject deck.
I'm not really into all the different Hi-Fi rack stand technology that is out there but i did find with all of my Pro-Ject decks that a simple little isolation platforn made from 4 or 5 Polipod/Foculpod/HFN&RR Soft shoes)Sorbothene Feet and a piece of 12-18mm Ply or MDF made a very cheap and effective isolation platform that really did work with these types of deck. I don't have a rigid deck anymore but i do still have the DIY platform. I can't honestly say that it works very noticably with any of the equipment I am using it with at the moment (DVD/DAC ) but i use it anyway , it did work with my Project 0.5, 1.2 and Goldring Excelda though.

The Pro-ject deck that you have is a very capable performer , however it is made to a price and therefore can't be expected to be absolutely perfect ( whatever that is ). I really enjoyed my Pro-Ject decks and found them to make a musical sound that i enjoyed for quite some time.

I have just recently bought a budget Dual 505-4 on a whim. The difference in capabilities between it and the Linn LP12 main deck are quite extreme, especially during quiet passages of music. Both decks play music great when there is loads of signal being produced, when the wiggles on the record surface start to straighten out a bit the quality of the Linn shows through. ( keywords 'Inky Blackness' springs to mind here)
HTH.

 

Thanks for all your advice, the turntable is currently just on a cheap ikea style £50 rack shelf, its quite stable but I doubt there is much isolation so maybe when I get back on my holiday I could make a dedicated HIFI rack. The belt has a little bit of grease on it, so I shall replace this (a spare came with the deck), as for oil I am not really sure exactly what to buy, I did think about using WD40 but then I guess this might cause more damage then good.

Also I guess some of the rumble is because it is a cheap turntable at the end of the day. I did remove the transport screw, the saleman at the shop very kindly told me to remove this, also there was another screw the saleman told me to remove that was not documented in the manual.

I shall have £200 by the end of year for upgrades, so I might get a DAC for my CDP second hand from ebay, and with the remaining £100 get my project serviced and get a new cartridge and stylus fitted. But thats for a later date. For the meantime I will continue buying all these £1 albums that still play like new from my local record shop (KingBee's, Chorlton, Manchester).

 

whatever you do, dont use WD40, that will lesson the viscosity of the oil so the bearing WILL rumble

clean the belt and the subplatter with a smidgen of meths

 

I'm certain that with a little help we could provide the information for you to servic the deck your self ![save you some dosh to boot]

As I've pointed out there are a number of holistic touches that can and will make the world of difference to the deck.

A decent support almost goes with out saying and I would consider that the first priority.

You can go Flexy or Lack [ikea table]. Either should provide you with a firm stable base. Personally I've made the flexy [at least two] but feel these are not the best for TT's. So would point you down the line of the lack table.

 

Target TT wall shelves come up secondhand quite regularly, about £30-£50 depending on condition. Check the FS threads here and at other sites.

 

before ya go to mad,this rumbling,is it from the speakers or mechanical noise from the turntable? could be your pre amp aint quite true to the riaa response curve and boosting the lower end a bit too much

 

Its when I listen to it from the headphones which are far more sensitive for noises like this (senheiser hd495). Its hardly noticable on the speakers, but half my listening is done through my headphones.

 

FYI Target TT shelf. Possible free delivery in Lancs area. Would suit impoverished student without own transport!!