Small differences in CD players..?

An interesting reality check, tho a rather unpleasant one.
My Densen CDP seems to have given up the ghost. So thats another
project to add to a long list of things that I have to do...
The interesting point is the effect of having to replace it with a
Marantz CD63SE sitting in a junkpile.
Oh dear..the sound is plain awful. Treble is both glassy AND
rounded off! Bass has lost any timing and has become a rumble with no
depth. Mid has lost large chunks of detail - probably just as well,
considering how the other parts sound. I can honestly say that there is no
urge to sit and listen whatsoever with this CDP.
Interestingly [for me] the differences are far greater in
reverse than they were in a forward jump when I originally upgraded.
I might try Densen for a repair, or I might just change - it always
was a pain in the ass with no remote and dodgy ergonomics.
I've heard the newer models like the XS, and I preferred mine.
I think they made quite a few changes internally to the B400 as it
was more of a 'prototype on sale'. Mine was about mkII of, maybe, 4
versions AFAIK. I suspect it had a bit of what WM likes about his
Wadia's tho I've never had a chance to compare properly.

 

It's amazing how when you go back it often seems to reinforce how right you were the first time! I've bought stuff, been pleased but not blown over, and then a while later swapped around and been gobsmacked.
What else have you thought of changing it with?

 

Had something similat too when my CAL DAC broke,had to use the DVD player,wheres has the music gone?flat,one dimensional,and frankly not intresting to listen to,turned off about 5 minutes later,put the CAL back in,the difference was more than small.

 

I experienced the same when upgrading my pre-amp.

A potential inference of this is that it's much easier to spot differences once you're used to a sound.
One implication of that is about the validity of things like DBL tests.
For example, the recent test report about differences between mains cables, when during short periods of time, the participants were simply incapable of telling the difference.

Any thoughts?

 

Aint got a clue, I'm afraid. I doubt it will be easy.
I need a big-fast-n-deep bass, non grainy treble [silky would be just dandy], and I want 4 musicians [for example] to sound like 4 people playing seperate things. I seem to remember this was 'a fault' of the Densen in a review! 'Musicians sound seperate - not a cohesive whole..' or some tosh like that.

Money will be short for a few months, so it's grin and bear it [if I was a batchelor, I could find the dosh - but I have to appear to have normal priorities to 'the boss']

Mr_Sukebe - I have to agree. I wouldn't argue against the point that a DBT is the only infallible test, but there is definitely more to listening than 'just hearing' AFAIK...Maybe a suitable null test of DACs would be interesting.

 

Dont Densen products come with a lifetime garauntee????
If so get it fixed or is this just the excuse you were looking for to get a nice shiney new box

Curt

 

Well well, you got me thinking there Curt.. I had never really thought about it before
I think I filled in the warranty card...

<from Densen website - part quoted:>

'When purchasing a new Densen product, you must send in the registration card enclosed with all Densen products within 14 days after the purchase.

The local warranty, which is carried out by your local dealer/distributor and variates from country to country, when this warranty is over, the Densen lifelong warranty takes over.'

So maybe I might have a Densen for life [curses, foiled again]. I might ralso reconsider the upgrades/trade ins to the 'plus' or 'XS'. Especially if there was a damn remote with it.

 

There is a remote. I's called GIZMO and costs 250 quid.

For a small fee you could clone mine to a learning remote

BTW, back in the summer of 2000 I borrowed a B400 for about 7 weeks while I waited for my Naim CD5 to be built and delivered. It was launched around that time, and mine was the first my dealer ever sold. It was certainly more detailed and sprightly than the B400 which seemed rounded off in comparison, even if more solid in the bass.

The B400 failed because it was Densen's first ever CD player and it was engineered down to a price - initially £1000, then £1380.

There were also inconsistencies between units. The result was that Densen - who make very fine amplifiers lost a few dealerships - including my local Naim dealer Acoustica, as well as the Audio Works up in Cheadle.

The B400XS is a different beast, and one that holds its own against the likes of Naim's top-flight players like the CDS2.

I have a CDX, and I'm in a dilemma as to whether I should just swap it for the B400XS or go for an XPS(2) to feed my existing player.

If you can get the B400 fixed FOC, I'd also consider the upgrade to a B400XS - they only change a few things inside the casing of your B400.

You may not have liked the XS version first time round, but if it addresses the rounding-off issues of the vanilla 400 in the midrange then it is a good player indeed. I'd give it another go if I were you.

BTW, Densen equipment generally is very fussy about wanky wires - choose the right ones and it gels brilliantly.

I suggest the objectivists use Densen amps to conduct their blind abx tests...

Omiga Audio do make interconnects and cables that work synergistically with Densen gear. Yes they are pricey, but Densen systems partnered correctly and without prejudice wrt the wiring aspects still represent much better vfm (IMHO) than equivalently priced Naim gear.

 

Oh how true

Hope you have some joy with your Guarantee. Funnily enough the lollipop I was going to suggest was Naim flavoured. The 5 in it's various guises is a very good player if you like it's style of presentation, that would be where I'd start if I were you.

 

Good news some DBT results just in:

"So what do you think is wrong then?"

"I don't know..it just wont read a disk"

"So is this the broken one?"

"No this the old one"

"Oh bugger that, it sounds broken - get something sorted quickly"

Now I need to try an XS at home to know the way forward.

 

I'm interested in the Densen CDP, and a lifetime warranty is no bad thing, but I'm put off by the number of people who report problems with them. Are they really fussy about the physical state of the CDs they play?

 

Actually I do not find it so amazing. The thing is - we "educate" ourselves listening to a good device and then can clearly see all drawbacks of an inferior one. I would be amazed if we had an ability to immediatly appreciate a better quality. It's same with all walks of life. CDPs highlight it simply because some very sublte nuances are measured here by very noticeable amounts of cash.

 

Mine only ever refused to play 2 CDs. One is a favourite bootleg - Steve Miller 1978, so that's a bit annoying. It plays CD-Rs no problem, and has HDCD.
Apart from a week ago, it always played everything else with no problems - now it plays nothing. I have heard the XS and my original, but not the 'plus'. The XS was more mid forward with 'chip pan frying/popcorn' type transients.

The old one is laidback mid with basso profundo and a bass kick. I'm a 70s kinda guy, so its just what I need. The lifetime warranty is only for original owners, not 2ndhand. I have seen XS greatly reduced new at about £1700 on the WWW.

When I got mine about 5 yrs ago there was not much alternative, but if I have to replace it I hope I can get the same sound from other makes with: free remotes, Philips transports and ideally a top loader.