Some sense creeping into the hifi press at last?

Just read John Crabbe's piece in this months HFN and thought it was excellent allthough no doubt will stir up some controversy. Here are some quotes:

I've always like John Crabbe's editorials and I'm glad he had the balls to write that stuff and expose a lot of the bullshit that's going on with hifi

Michael.

 

I agree with nearly all of that.. you could summarise it as:

1) room/speaker interaction causes a bigger impact on the sound than anything else
2) loudspeakers vary the most in sound out of all pieces of kit
3) producing a quality cable needn't be expensive
4) differences between pieces of kit are often very small (sonically)
5) DBT removes outside influences and gives a more accurate comparison (if you care to do it)

I subscribe to the 'john crabbe club' ! - I feel like doing a poll to see what percentage of the forum agrees with most of that..

 

or it could be summarised even further as:
trust us not your own ears.
sorry not had my coffee yet so mr cynic is out to play,
cheers


julian

 

Good thread.

What's WM got to say about it?

 

Or of course it could be construed as telling everyone to get a Tact RCS and get rid of the most vulgar errors generated in the hifi replay chain in the first place

Or that he is now getting on for ninety and about to retire from the industry.

The real message would appear to be that hifi is such a subjective experience, that reviewers giving blanket recommendations of just about anything is a nonsense in this day and age.

Or the advice is to get some speakers that interact well with your room, an amp (any amp) that will drive them without clipping, an iPod, and find another hobby. Highly constructive I feel.

 

Ageist.

 

No Bub, if retiring at 35 the reasoning would still be valid.

 

perhaps if he is going on 90 his hearing is going?
but I too would subscribe to that, largely, I do hear more differences in amplfiers than cd players, not to say the latter don't have any.

Perhaps they are now giving out recommendations left right and centre, as most equipment is good Merlin?

 

Mr C is entitled to his opinion, in the same way we all are, now Merlin has used Mr C advancing years as a reason for this, Ju has citied possilby a Jaded cyncial view ol' Johynny boy has for his scrbblings.
I agree with him on the Room/Speaker inteactions.
Some kit it is difficult to tell apart (Proviso here, dependant on the construction of the system its in).
Some cable/voodoo prices are rude no arguement
Blind testing has a place, but shouldn't be used wholely as a basis for kit changes.
Speakers Can have a large impact on the sound, but so can changing an amplifier or cdp/TT if AGAIN the system has been sorted.
I get one hellva of a difference if I change my Wadia for AA Capitol (God forbid) or DCS/MSB etc.
Changing my B/C for a Advantage/Dynavector/Pass labs x series, or even a AR 200 watt valve unit.
This goes along the anti soucre first lines (Cue 500 FE's going banzani), I view the speakers as the exhaust of the system, big bore pipe better breathing for sure, but need correct air/fuel ratio to give correct preformance, (14.7:1 if you want to be cock on simpkins)
So you'll need a remap and better air filter/cam upgrade (vernier wheel to extract the most from yourmods too) and cylinder head rework to go with it maybe??
If that works out to be in the form of stands/cables/isolation then the bottom line as ALWAYS
Use your own ears in YOUR system, forget the BOLLOX and feel what does/doesn't do it for you PERSONALLY

 

One Genuine point here, (this is not being used as a sales point, just a counterpoint to the age thing)
About 3 weeks ago we suppiled a balanced digital cable to a customer on behalf of another client, it went to a gentleman who is 58, he uses it between a Teac transport and a Dac 64, we had a phone call about two weeks ago from the Gent (we have never delt with this person before) he spent about 30 minutes on the phone explaining all the various differenices he'd himself had felt was over his previous signal transmission line.
So it seems its not just us young un's that are hearing things !!!!

 

nice analogy wm

 

Glad you enjoyed an article that agrees with your viewpoint Michael.

Don't bother to read the Next couple of Plush's: "Blind Listening to Expensive cables - Can you hear the difference?"
... some marked and repeatable differences heard by a panel of three listeners.


Cheers

Jason

 

and, of course, nordosts cock gets sucked again

 

Which part of BLIND TESTS don't you understand?


Cheers

Jason

 

He always does Jason - sadly it is incredibly rare that something so amusing actually gets published

 

Then I suggest those three listeners set off for the US where there's been a long standing prize of $10K for anyone who could achieve this...and it's never been claimed. Might make a substantial impact on the HF+ balance sheet.

Guess what? I don't think they'd succeed in claiming it

Still, looking forward to reading the articles.

btw, I forgot to mention that in the same issue, KK refers to "cable bullshit" in an editorial bemoaning the likely future decline of the high-end hifi industry. More people coming to their senses

Michael.

 

michael,
most of these 'prizes' have reams of small print as get out clauses such as all cables must measure the same, be level matched etc. if it's just a case of them giving out 10k for someone who can tell the difference between any two cables they bring along in the same system at the same volume setting on the amp for each cable then it would be very easy to do.
rather than testing the cable, these tests seem to test the listener which surely isn't the point of a cable test.
cheers


julian

 

Even DBTs have problems because the second playing usually sounds better than the first, even if you change nothing.

 

That's true, but that's why DBT's involve multiple trials where the user has to say whether it's A or B and then you use statistics to determine whether the listener(s) could really tell A and B apart or whether the results could just as easily have been achieved by chance.

I'm guessing that the HF+ test methodology was flawed but will reserve judgement until I read the articles. When are they coming out Jason?

Julian, level matching is critical to any test, blind or not as louder invariably sounds better. I think you could find plenty of different high end hifi cables which measure similarly enough to be acceptable. The reason the clause is there is to prevent someone turning up with a cable that has been deliberately engineered to sound shite by using absurdly high resistance or capacitance that no real cable would have and then trotting off with the prize.

As JC pointed out, there's a similar prize for amplifiers which has never been claimed.

Michael.

Michael.

 

It's the old old belief that all amps and cables sound the same provided they are used properly.

Can anyone explain to me why CD players sound different, even when sharing almost identical measurements?

I mean we know some dacs are deliberately engineered to roll off treble to disguise that which they cannot get right (and to trick you into thinking they sound more like a turntable), but why do others sound so diffferent?