Something is wrong

Right, I've got my Ariston Q deck on a wall mounted shelf and dead level. It's connected to a pro-ject phonobox.
It's got an Ortofon OMB 10 with supposedly low hours, I'm pretty sure it's original. I've inspected the stylus with a magnifying glass and can detect no defects.
I've checked the cartridge alignment with a protractor from VE.
It sounds pretty good... except for some males voices some of the time. I can hear distortion, clearly (128kbps mp3's from my computer are clearer), e.g. Bob Marley, Randy Newman, Johnny Cash.
I know this is not meant to be, but it's got me stumped. I'm new to vinyl, this is my first go.
So, what do I do, new stylus, new cartridge, look at VTA (although from what I've read VTA makes things brighter or duller, and I hear distortion. And anyway, why would it be wrong, the same things happens regardless of record thickness)?
Thanks for any help
Harry

 

tracking weight is?
And how have you set it?

 

Is it general break up on loud sounds or distorted sibilance?
General breakup indicates wrong tracking force or aged rubber parts in the cartridge. Distorted sibilance means the tip is worn out or the cartridge is very badly aligned in the arm.

 

no there is no distortion on loud sounds and general sibilance. It's only audible on male voices.
One record is new (johnny cash American Man III), MP3s are fine, so it's not the rest of the set up (it pisses me off mp3's are more listenable at the mo).
I haven't set azimuth, but this doesn't seem to be adjustable. I'll reset the tracking weight, but I don't have scales, I'm using the increments on the arm. It says 1.3 at the mo.
But I've been thinking about anti-skate. This may be separate, but when I use the cueing arm, the whole arm shoots outward towards the stop, this makes it impossible to use the cueing arm for anything but lifting off. Could this be too much anti-skate, and could it be effcting the sound in the way I'm experiencing. Also, I don't know how to set it, anyone?

 

I dont know how to set anti-skate on your deck, but certainly it can be the cause.

Too much anti skate (even a little can be too much) and the needle will be shoved against the side wall of the groove giving distortion.

 

don't know what the arm is, but it's original. Has two Dials (I can see):

 

I dont know either.

the bottom dial looks like it could be an anti skate. Try putting it on zero.

 

from the little i know it's almost certainly the anti skate. the dial to the side of the arm controls it. if the arm still pings to the centre after the dail is adjusted then the anti s mechanism is f**ed

 

The arm looks very similar (though not quite identical) to the Mission 774lc, the manual for which can be found here:

http://www.vinylengine.com/library_model.php?make=Mission&selected_model=775LC

If you don't have scales to set the tracking weight, I would first of all balance the tonearm so that it floats (hangs parallel when not being supported by the arm rest/riser, without touching the record playing surface). When it's floating, check to see at what number the dial at the back of the arm is sitting on, and if it's not 0, adjust it so that it is 0 and apply the relevant tracking weight for the cartridge from that point.

Using the dial on the side of the arm, set the anti-skate to the same as the tracking weight as a starting point, and then adjust this by ear to get it exact whilst playing a record (from memory, buzzing/distortion in the left channel means too much anti-skate and buzzing/distortion in the right means too little).

A useful article on cartridge set up can be found here:

http://www.audiophilia.com/features/cartridge_setup.htm


Good luck with it,

Chris.

 

ah ha, I thought it was arm height. So how do I adjust arm height? I'll float the tonearm too

 

it floats at 0.7. Does this mean I start the scale at 0.7 and add on say 1.5? I do I just need to forget it?

 

If the arm is floating with the dial showing 0.7, then, yes, you'll need the dial to show 2.2 if the recommended tracking force is 1.5g.

 

Right, but this is a hell of a lot of force, the arm drops lock a rock on this setting (compared to before), is this ok?

 

I think it wouldbe better to take the turntable to a local friendly dealer who can show you how to set it up. But the pay off is that they will probably try and sell you something.

When you float the arm set he number to 0 while it is still balanced then turn it to the recommended weight. i.e 1.5g.

But as I said get someone to look at it and show you how to set it up.

 

Certainly set it to zero the apply 1.5 tracking force and continue to increase this until 2.0 or until the sound becomes clear on loud passages. You will probably settle for around 1.8 or 1.9

 

you don't need to fund the dealers next luxury holiday.


this is what I'd do

get some graph paper ...make a fold parallel to one set of lines and stand it on the lp's surface [tt stationary]
place the the arm and cart on the record...move the graph paper so that its parallel to the arm....looking horizontally at the arm and perpendicular to the graph paper ...do the lines rise towards the cart end or the weight end ?

if the rise towards the cart raise the weight end and vis a versa.

the height adjuster should be a screw behind the arm pillar....though I would not be suprised if you found that it had none. If thats the case you can only pack under the headshell to effectively make the cart deeper.

you need a cart alignment tool ...there are loads o the web just print on off

set the cart so it parallel to the lines at the null points on the protractor.

The Q deck was stunning in its price bracket when new ...but I suspect its a bit long in the tooth now ....may be an idea to check the bearing oil and any electrolytic caps if you feel the speed stability is a problem.

Going from cd[distortion free] to tt is difficult as especially at the lower end, these deck were very much a compromise and you may never be able to solve distortion problems only reduce them.

the cart is only adequate if I'm thinking of the right one ...
its not the square box type its an angled arm fitted to a top plate.
the deck should be able to stand a decent mm type like AT 440ml or push the boat out for dynavector 10x5 [may be ott for this deck]. If you like the current sound there should be at least one better plug in stylus 'om20'.

If you can borrow a stethoscope have a listen to the deck with just the motor running ...should tell you a lot about its condition.


There may be a bearing issue .........gently GENTLY lift the arm and move from side to side if you feel anything this needs attention. The are looks like a unipivot ? maybe an oem Audiotechnica ?

Is the dust just a photo artifact ? if not, it need to be kept very clean as this can cause problems with bearings and cantilevers.

Anti skate should be set to the same as the down force then moved a little at a time to get the best sound both + and - of the original setting.

Set the downforce properly ....

turn the weight with the arm over the lp but not down [arm lever up and anti skate to zero ] set the weight so that the arm is in balance and horizontal with the lift arm down. turn the dial to zero.....holding dial and weight turn to the recommended tracking weight [1.8g to 2.25g original om10 spec] check with a stylus balance if you have one ...those cheap digital pocket scales are affected by magnets so you need to improvise ! Then have a listen ......remember if its a second hand lp you could be listening to distortion created by the previous owners hedge stake as it crashed through the grooves !!

 

Zanesh thats great advise but I still recommend someone going over to have look at the deck and show how its done. I'm sure theres a forum member that lives near by. That way it would put into place what we are talking about.

If you live near Hastings I don't mind having a look and I promise I won't try to sell you anything. Honest guv!

 

Wow, that's a thourough breakdown Zanesh. I've done the alignement with a printed off cartridge, all good. And the VTF with the method you suggested.
I've tried 80/90 gear oil, 2 stroke oil, and a motor oil (forget the visc.). Got the gear oil in now, platter is smoothe and silent with no side to side movement. How do I check the capacitors?
About the cartridge, what about getting one from the US, I hear there are some good deals there?
The dust is purely flash-fabricated IMO, it's totally invisible under bright light.
I'm pretty sure, having had a closer more informed look, that there's no height adjustment. But I've set the anti-skate.
So after doing the alignment, VTF and antiskate it's come on heaps. Now makes a very nice sound and I can fully justify listening to it over all the other sources

And thanks for the offer hifi, you're right it would be very useful if someone could really show me how things are done. I fear Hastings is a little far though - I'm between petersfield and midhurst. Anyone else?

 

Yes that would be great help .....but as a mate !

where are you ?

have you had the same problem on several discs, both new and used ?

The if the speed seems ok ...its likely the caps are good its not something I'd worry about.

As said do remember its an entry level deck [or was at the time..early 90's?] so a lot of compromises will have been made. I recall hearing one shortly after its release and was very impressed at it performance against its cost.

 

on the border of west sussex and hampshire. I had the problem on several discs, including a brand new one. However, I'm now on the verge of saying the problem is solved. The distortion hasn't shown its ugley head for a while.

I'm pretty sure the speed's ok, suppose I could do some timing. But if I can't tell the difference do I really want to know whether it's correct? It flogs the cds and mp3s. Am thinking it was the anti skate and VTF. I'll be sure to winge quick if it's not fixed though...