Speaker Advice for Novice

Hi, only my 2nd post, but looking for some opinions.
I've bought and sold bits of kit in the past just cos I like a change as well as getting upgrade fever.

The remnants of my first system are Dynaudio Audience 52s and Chord Odyssey speaker cable. Electronics wise I'm currently playing with a Meridian 507 and Tag PA10 pre and 60P pwr with an Atlas Voyager between.

The sound I get is ok, but just ok. I feel like the the amp and or speakers cant keep up with the music. It struggles to dissect complex tunes like REM's Animal - which souds awful, frankly. I find myself turning the volume up, which I know is a sign of problems somewhere else in system. Only fast punchy songs sound good, like Goldfrapp's Train song. But I imagine that sounds good on any system. Given that the amps are the newest, I dont want to change them.

Obviously the sound I want is the hifi nirvana of my system being able to play all music really well! But on a more personal level, i'd like something that isn't imediately obvious, but more draws you into the music over time and becomes a really engaging listen. As an example, I dont want Cyrus-ie stuff. Had it in the past, but found it tiring to listen to all afternoon. Too aggressive for my ears. But ultimately I want my foot to tap to this system. It sounds so slow, lifeless and doing "hifi" by the numbers.

The power amp is only 60wpc and the speakers are a bit difficult to drive; 86db/4ohms. So I suspect getting more sensitive speakers might let the amp be more incontrol instead of being over-run. That a fair comment?

I'd say the system can sound a little bright at times at the moment, bass is ok. My listening room is small - still in my beedroom, with laminate flooring. One consideration I have is using my hifi speakers as part of an AV set up when I move out next year. All these unfamiliar brands you guys talk about ive never heard of, can afford, or dont even know if they do cinema speakers. So farely mainstream speakers are what I'm after, only so as I can get hold of a new centre and rear channel speaks which will match tonally.

Not sure of a budget, £500 maybe, so buying second hand is probably very likely. I like the B&W CDM 1NTs but no idea if they will go. Tag helpesk suggested the Quad L series. Imagine that. Meridian said they were too unfamiliar with Tag to comment.

What do you geniuses propose?

Cheers in advance - Phil

 

First, you didn't mention speaker stands - you should have some.. Just because you have bookshelf speakers doesn't mean they should be on a bookshelf.

Next, even in small rooms, get your speakers away from the walls.

If "Train" sounds pretty good. Then REM's Animal might just be a lousy recording. (I've heard train, and it's very dynamic and gives my system a good workout..) That it sounds good suggests your system is working properly..

Next, if you don't know what REM should sound like, buy some very good headphones. These are an investment - if you spend money wisely here you will save hundred's (perhaps thousands) on buying speakers only to later figure out they were crap. Seriously, Sennheiser HD600's/Grado's/Etymotic's/STAX will tell you more about the mix than any speaker and will also give you a hell of a clue about how good speakers are supposed to sound... If your now confused about which of those 'phones to buy, don't worry, you can't really go wrong with any of them.. (Senn HD600's are probably still available at bargain basement prices..)

It's worth remebering that you listen to Speakers AND the room they are in. If your moving out, and can stand the Dynaudio's until then, don't change yet. They might sound fine in your new abode. [You might also find your new neighbours prefer your headphones ]

I suspect you might be asking too much of your dynaudios in terms of volume. The trouble is that systems that can play loud effortlessly, without distortion cost large amounts money (like ten times your budget.)

AV is a lot of fun, but on a limited budget and with limited space, it can be a waste of money. I've had a quite expensive 5.1 system, but these days watch movies on a 2.1 system (which occasionly I add rear channels too, but most of the time I can live without.)

Anyway, it might be wise to save up a bit more money, probably >£1500 and then start looking for a much bigger (possibly floorstanding) speaker. Your amp/cd player are fine - these days speakers are the most important part of any system.

 

What on earth are you doing up at that time? The stands are small mission stancettes. I'm aware they're not the best. Perhaps it's a lousy recording, but i've heard Animal sound great and clear. I wouldn't go as far as to say to get music to play at high volumes effortlessly I need to spend 10 times as much; I used to work in a hifi shop and know it can be done for modest amounts. Admittedly the Classe Omega monos I was in love with were about £25k.

I considered the room could be an issue. It's kinda bare, a bit like the sound. I think i'm asking too much of my amp rather than the speakers. The speakers need lots of juice to get them going, and they sound at their best when they're rocking. I might be able to hang on till i'm somewhere new. But saving up £1500 is just not an option. I might upgrade my headphones in the meantime.

Thanks for your input.

 

Having my coffee at the moment too. How long have you been playing with your toys in that room? From past experiences the loudspeakers could be maximise by rearranging all the furnitures and everything yet again. Pay attention to the room acoustics like echo reflections reduces brigthness or the whatever people call it. Maybe the is a change in music taste is at hand? When I manage to get the toys to play Mozart, Beethoven, Mahler and finally Shostacovich well everything else seems adequate too.

 

I believe oedipus is stateside, hence he appears to be crazily nocturnal.

The Quad L series are very, very good for the money IMO - and the 11Ls were quite similar to the CDM1NTs to my ears, so that might be something you'd like to check out. Have a look at the 22Ls - they're certainly not embarrassed in hifi terms by my Sennheiser HD600s (must get round to posting something up here about those), and in terms of soundstaging / airiness and tangible, visceral bass they're streets ahead (that's just a headphones / speakers thing though).

I got my Sennheisers new for £140 a few weeks back from Ask in Tottenham Court Road, by the way.

 

If Tag amps are anything like the Audiodrabs I think they are based on you'd best get shot of them.

I reckon you might enjoy a naim nait or exposure to fill out this bright sound.

Also get a rug between you and the speakers laminate flooring is a curse!!

 

Ahhh dont say that, I only bought them recently! Not quite paid them off either. Besides, I've not given them a chance yet. They still might prove themselves worthy. A mate has said i'd probably like Naim. Unfortunately shop i worked in didnt stock it so never heard it.

Been playing in that room every night since i was about 14 lol. Been listening to hifi for about 3 years in it. Cant really move the furniture around as a I have a fixed wardrobe, a bed, and hifi rack. Nowt else.

What speakers do you use, PeteH? In what order would you rate the 11L, 22L, and CDM1s - in relation to my other kit?

 

sounds like either..
1) speakers not set up ideally
2) crappy room acoustics
3) the amp not driving the speakers properly
(I dont think its the Meridian 507 at fault)

Have you tried lugging your kit into a carpeted lounge to see if the sound changes drastically?

If you cant get a good result in any room, with different speaker placements then for me I'd be looking at amp or speakers.

 

See signature for the answer to that one.

The 11L is a bit lightweight for me to be honest - there's precious little bottom end and it's just not really acceptable for my tastes and the kind of stuff I listen to (predominantly large-scale orchestral). The 22L is an entirely different beast though, but as it's got pretty fair bottom-end extension you're likely to need a little bit of breathing space for it, otherwise you'll get mad boom all over the place. That said mine are hardly in a massive room at the moment and they're not too bad.

Probably the most meaningful comparison I can make is that given the choice I'd rather listen to my NAD / Quads than my Creek / Sennheisers by quite a decent margin, but due to environmental factors it's often expedient for me to stick the headphones on.

Toss-up between the 11Ls and the CDM1NTs IMO. I'd much rather have the 22Ls than the CDM1NTs, but that's not really a fair comparison. Given the choice I might swap CDM9NTs for the 22Ls, but I definitely wouldn't pay the (considerable) price differential. You'd probably have to pay a little more than £500 for 22Ls BTW, though I guess you might get lucky.

 

Pete, bottle', thanks for the input. Appreciated.