Speaker height

Within what range does the tweeters have to be level with your ears?

I was supposed to be building some speaker stands today, but the PVC piping I was going to use seems quite expensive, and the build may not be straight foward as one would expect.

So I might buy a pair of half decent commercial ones, (anything has got be better than what I have now) my only spec is that they must be the sand filling type so that they are more likely to be chunky. The height adjustable ones in Argos are a no no, (mine will be no worse)

So back to my original question, my speakers are currently 95cm of the ground, but if I buy some I can only afford the 60m speaker stands, so it appears that I am stuck.

Is it as vital to get your speakers at the right height as people and the magazines make out?

EDIT: I've had idea use some threaded bars (the 12mm ones I didnt't use on my flexy) the only problem is they maybe to tall, but I've had idea for that. This will be a pretty cheap way of doing, and I already have the MDF bases from my old ones. I will use 3 legs on each stand.

 

Your ears should be same height as between the tweeter and the woofer...

 

I believe that your ears should be at approximately the same height as the tweeter. The woofer placement is not as critical.

However, the precise best position will depend on the off-axis response of the particular tweeter used. Some tweeters are too sharp when listened to on-axis.

As always, you have to listen to discover what works best for you. You can adjust up and down (with the stand), you can tilt up or down and you can toe in to taste.

Note that not all speakers use this rather strange woofer/tweeter/crossover system. If you're lucky enough to own a full-range system using, say, four drivers per side, then arrange your listening height so that your ears are halfway up the driver array.

Steve

 

Steve,

The recomendation I made is Sonus Faber's too, please explain why ears should be halfway up the driver array with your speakers, but not with a two way...

 

I'm not very familiar with the Sonus Faber range. I consider them my major competitor so I ignore them completely.

I would assume that they give this recommendation because they have designed the speakers so that the tweeter should be listened to slightly off-axis.

Generally, it's the high frequencies that are most directional, hence my recommendations about ear height and tweeters.

With a system like the Nonsuch 4 four drivers are used in a mini-array and each produces the entire frequency spectrum. This is not a problem for bass or mid-range but there are some comb effects where the drivers can interfere with each other at high frequencies (above 10kHz). The Nonsuch 4 is designed so that these cancellations don't happen if you listen with your ears about halfway up the driver array. However, if you stand up you will lose the high frequencies.

To minimize combing I have positioned the drive units as close together as I can. Actually, this is significantly closer than other manufacturers have achieved using similar drivers. Also, there is a practical limit of four of these drive units mounted in this way. More than that and the high frequencies will really suffer - unless you add crossovers or other electronic compensation, perish the thought.

Hope this helps.

 

Because of the beaming effect of the high freqs. the tweeter should be within a few degrees of the the tweeter, the dispersion of most tweeters without loss of hf is very small 5 degrees in some cases, thats not to say you can't be within 15 degrees, but the effect of being above or below the tweeter will be more prominent.

Is the tweeter above or below the bass unit ?

You've a pic somewhere I'll go and look !


The pipe stand should [famous last words] be the proverbial piece of cake, if youve done the flexy !

Look on the TNT site for a full indepth description of who to make them. The hardest part will be to make the plugs for the pipes, one attached to the base over which the pipe slide, the second attached to the top plate through wich the threaded rod fits. Assemble to the point of having base, rod, plug, pipe together fill with cool oven dry sand [at least 1 hour 180 degrees]. Then attach top plate and plug and bolt down. Cut threaded rod to level of top plate [ I might have done this earlier on a dry run assembly].

I looked at this design when I had stand mounters and would have used three pipe uprights to aid in stablility.

 

Just had a look at the images of your white stands, gosh they look tall !

Where do you listen ?

These are way to high for sofa or bed. The flexy in the pic has rods about a metre high give or take. The norm is about 0.5m for the stands that then puts the tweeters at around ear level for the average seated position.

With the speakers you have the best postion, IMO would be to have them a fraction higher than ear level. If you can imagine where the coils are in each unit, as if you were looking at them from the side. Draw a line to connect them, then imagine a line at 90 degrees to it, this is the line that has a null time offset. With your speakers this will point at about 5-10 degrees down below the horizontal. Your speaker height should then be somewhere between the hrizontal taken from the centre of the tweeter and this null time offset line. Hope that makes sense!!

 

I listen to them on my bed, my chair is slightly below my bed, and the tweeter is about the same distance below my ears when I get right next to the speakers with my chair, this why I probably already have the right height, for the tweeters to be aligned with my ears but if it has to be in between the two then my they maybe about 10cm to high.

I havent even got any of the parts for my new stands yet, I am waiting for my dad to take me to B&Q.

I don't use my speakers much in HIFI mode as I find the listening position so restricted as I have a small room so they are only really used when I have freinds round or for background music, my headphones are for HIFI. I the main reason I am replacing my existing ones is that they are falling apart and the wobble like mad. If my listening position was lower I would just buy a pair of £40 speaker stands but because I need at least 70cm they will cost a fortune. I have already gone way over budget this month because of my unplanned and unwanted DVD player and computer upgrade (its my parents fualt).

 

I can believe that !!

You could try sitting on the floor with a large bean bag ......I used to have a similar sized bedroom. They are very comfortable and support the back very well, leaving your shoulders and ears free of back wall effects and upholstry absorbtion effects.

Its horses for courses, so its really down to you as to what will suit best.

 

Thanks for your advice. I am only planning to stay here another year (if all goes well with uni) so I am half tempted just to buy some 50mm stands and prop them up with old books codered in something just as a tempory measure.

I woke up this morning wanting to build some, but now I have not got the motivation and know I will end up rushing it, I had a lot of motivation in building the flexy and was patient.

My dads just said he will take me to RS to take back to faulty DVD so I might buy some stands while I am there.

 

I had a similar problem wit my stands being very low. How about (if you're not 100% on DIY) buying some sturdy commercial ones and then simply raising them with a few paving slabs? Chances are you're on top floor bedroom, and therefore probably a nice bouncy floor.

Thread on speaker hight :

https://www.audio-forums.com/as-rediect/showthread.php?s=&threadid=175

Thread on Understanding Under Stands (damn i'm clever )

https://www.audio-forums.com/as-rediect/showthread.php?s=&threadid=759

MO

 

Thanks I just bought some 65cm ones from RS when I took back my DVD. They have let me down again, I asked them if the base plate of these stands would be large enough to support my speakers as they have spikes on the bottom because of the bass port, they said oh yes it will be fine. The bass plate is far to small so I will have to screw my own on top of it. Argh!

The stands seem nice and stable though for £30 a pair, much better than the argos stuff.

 

See ! thats where you went wrong, asking them a question! lol :MILD:

Looks like reality is - accept they know squat, do your own research and then buy it if you know its what you want and you know they have it in stock.

I'd be suprised if you dont know more than they do matey, so I wouldnt be asking for their advice on squat! (harsh but true I feel)

Cheers
Chris

 

The base plate will be solved by screwing two peices of MDF into them. They are just resting on the plates atm.

The problem is now, I don't have to worry about my speakers falling off, but I have lost the sound stage, I can now tell where the sound is coming from and it sounds like I have to identical bands in the room where is before it sounded like one band and the instruments were well seperated. Thats a slight aggeration, its not that bad, but its worse than what it was.

I don't want to have to move my speakers as that will mean spending a fortune on speaker cable. If I sit on the floor rather than my bed I am at almost the right height, but I am to close to the speakers. I can't win, its so hard having a small room.

I shall have to think of a very cheap way of raising them of the ground a bit I think its my only option.

I would have normally bought some large speaker stands but the problem is the larger you need them the more poles you need so it would have cost £100. And if I am not going to be living here for much longer it would have been pointless.

I think its just a matter of expermenting with different cheap solutions until I get that sound stage back.

P.S I will be filling in my RS comments card!

 

Sorted out the problem, because my speakers have a bottom facing bass reflex port I was able to place the speakers right next to the wall (about 6-8 inches away) without any boom.

If I sit on my floor with a pillow I get my sound stage back, and there is more detail than there was before, its not ideal but it will do for now.

 

Steve,

SF also puts the drivers as close as possible, plus the front "slopes", so they are time aligned, I guess...

 

If these are the speakers i'm thinking they are going on your description, they've got theport on the inderside of them yes? If I was you I wouldn't put off sticking the MDF or whatever under them so as to make the top plate big enough to get them on their spikes rather than port. Don't imagine having a ported speaker's port completely covered can be too good can it?

 

Thats the problem, if the base plate is left without the MDF the bass port will be covered, as the spikes on the speaker have a large foot print than the base plate. The bass port is underneath the speaker, the idea of of this was to make it less sensitive to how close it had to be placed near the wall.

 

Yes, I think SF make some great speakers although I haven't done any extended listening trials - and they sure look purdy.

I was talking about others who use the Bandor drivers.

Steve

 

The loss of imaging is probably caused by the closness of the rear wall.

There are a number of things you can try, as an experiment bring the speakers forward and see how they sound. Any better ?
At the very least they need to be level with the front of the shelving, sat back against the wall with the gear between, refracting and reflecting the sound waves they will never be at there best.

Toe them in a bit, this should improve imaging.

Let me know how you get on!