speaker recommendations

Im looking to move on from my kefs ( 104 /2) which although quite musical are getting to be annoying in the midrange - far too closed in for my tastes. Ive owned a pair of wilson benesch arcs, and loved the clarity and power, but disliked the clinical nature of them at times...i could do with a reasonably good sized 3 way floor stander.....though not huge (L shaped room of reasonable size) I like tight punchy bass and instruments, but i really go for vocal presentation and musicality...spending in the region of a grand or just above (second hand ideally) any ideas.....cheers and happy new year to all andy

 

Quad ELS 57's
Also Andy

 

Ref 107 / 2

 

i dont think id have the space for the quads andy....are those the electrostats? and greg - have you tried the 107 / 2 and what are they like? cheers

 

Reference 3a Veena or Grand Veena

 

Can he find a pair though? I don't think I've ever seen a pair for sale!

 

They do seem to come up now and then on eBay but the ones worth taking a punt on (IMO) tend to be circa 1400-1600 so prob not a candidate in this case. The Mk1's tend to be cheaper by some margin, but are to be avoided. Hi btw

 

Re; Kef 107 as an option.

What size is your current room? The Kef 107 likes a fair bit of space usually, like at least 2m apart, with around 1m from side walls and .5m from the rear, with a listening distance equal to or greater than the distance between the speakers.

They are also are a little fussier of amplification and room construction, plasterboard walls and suspended floors being a little detrimental (in particular to tight punchy bass), and quiet amps with decent current delivery being prefered (as in smaller rooms the 107 aeems quite good at highlighting amplifier noise and hiss). What amp would you be using?

Finally, they have a similar voicing to the 104/2 so you may still find the mid slighty shut in. Though the mid of the 107 was regarded as good and compairable to the Spendor BC1, I think the performance is also quite amplifier dependant.
It is also recommened that you use the Kube, as it tailors the mid and treble, and its bass control can be quite usefull in some of the more flimsy constructions of UK homes.

 

Why are the MK1 to be avoided?

The cloth dome T33 in the early model was regarded as better than the metal dome of the MKII, main difference on the MKII was bi-wire facilities, a metal dome treble, and a revised Kube with less adjustment. MKII was available as a £600 odd upgrade to MK1 users, you sent your old heads and Kube plus your cheque for £600 odd, and then recieved a new Kube and new head assemblies, bi-wire was not available as an upgrade, and not deemed necesarry, as the MKII changes were mainly to the treble and Kube, with Bi-wire option added due to market trends.

My own preference would be for an early pair with original Kube, with service history and recent replacement bass drivers. Or a pair of Raymond Cooke late editions.
Whatever type you are after, replacement bass drivers or recent replacement are a must, and having the treble units rebuilt and serviced is advisory, and using a test CD to check the speakers for leaks or resonance is advisable.

 

This is the reason the Mk1 is to be avoided AFAIU. The Mk1 are know for the bass drivers perishing. I stand to be corrected, but that's my understanding.

The Mk2 pair I own apparently belonged to the Kef Sales Director and have a number of the Ray Cooke features, though are not (officially) the Ray Cooke version.

Regards the cloth T33 tweeter vs the metal dome. Mmm tricky, I have some love for the attributes of the cloth tweeter, but it does lack a bit of crispness. I wouldn't say either is the perfect solution.

 

I agree with the bass driver issue, but I think this is now an issue with all the 107 range inc MKII (same bass drivers as the MK1) and 104/2 too, and even if it seems fine, all it may take is the extra cone excursion from a movie (The new War of The Worlds did it for mine) to tear the foam surround if slightly brittle.
I believe 10-15 years expected life for the foam and adhesives of any 107 bass driver dependent on conditions, IE central heating and such?

For me getting an old pair and having the bass drivers and treble serviced (regardless of condition) by the likes of Wembly would seem the best option, if Wembly can rebuild the bass drivers.
Any MK1 would need replacement/rebuilt bass drivers and rebuilt treble units in my opinion, any MKII would more than likely need new drivers if not a late pair, or would have drivers on their way out.

The opinion I was under regarding the treble, was that the metal dome was Kefs first foray, and not quite as refined and smooth as the soft dome, it suffered from some resonance and was a little brittle and more siblant?
Not quite as good as the units from Celestion and such at the time, and certainly not worth the upgrade premium, or using with many of the 1990 cd players of the time. My own ears prefer the cloth dome, and I feel the treble units get a little dull with age and ferrofluid drying up.

I agree with your opinion on the treble, I myself think the whole Kef 107 range's worst attribute was the treble unit, the cloth dome being the lesser of two evils. I want to change my own at some time, to a more modern equivalent, but finding a drop in replacement is not so simple, and Raal seem costly and involve work, both of which I cannot do at this time.

I am not sure there were many internal upgrades with the Raymond Cooke versions?

I also think that the 107 is less suited to the modern home.

 

These might fit the bill depending on your amplification:
http://www.hifiwigwam.com/view_topic.php?id=18562&forum_id=5&highlight=revel+f30

 

some very useful info and links so far, many thanks.....the kefs sound good, but i dont wish to use the kube to be honest, space and i really only want the pair of speakers.....dont really want to start rebuilding etc, but realise that this is essential with the kefs....tyhe 104 / 2s have perished, but the bass sounds very good eeven so....i wonder how good they sounded new?????anyway thanks so far, and im still open to suggestions.....uncle...what are these like? any idea? amp is a belles ocm 5oo soloist BTW....smooth and musical, with very good bass......( icould have them 50 cm from side and rear walls really.....lounge is about 8m long by 4m ish

 

I have to admit I haven't heard the F30 but I've owned the Revel M20 and M22 which are the stand mount speaker in this series. The M20 is basically the top two sections of the F30 and is one of the best monitors going with great clarity, openness and dyanmics. From what I have read the F30 combines this with seriously prodigous bass from the 10"? driver at the bottom. If I had the space (which you seem to have) I'd love to try them. You can also adjust the treble output using the dials on the back which can help in placement.

 

Could you give me further info regards "Wembly"?

Yep, absolutely, though I'm a little perverse

I do find for me they offer the following:
- sensitive enough to be driven by the Lavardin IS Ref and offer the option to go valves if I ever find the time to think about it
- they present vocal and acoustic music beautifully
- integrated Krell (@ 300W into 4ohms) drives them perfectly and produces a room filling powerful sound whether playing Foo Fighters, John Digweed mixes or Prince Far I
- pound for pound they seem to be very good value for money given their flexibility.
- their looks are food for conversation.

 

Hi Greg, hny to you!

 

http://www.wembleyloudspeaker.com/

I am sure I spoke to these guys before I ordered replacement bass drivers from Kef, and think they said they would have to see the drivers, but I am sure I also heard of someone having his 104/2 bass drivers repaired? Though there was another repair specialist which I cannot remember the details of?

I have never found or heard of any valve amp which can comfortably drive a pair of 107's and offer control and depth regarding bass. Inc big Lumleys and Papworths and Jadis. I had some success with MF's Nu-Vista 300 power, but the Kef highlighted hiss and valve noise. The amps I have enjoyed best are solid state items with decent current delivery, as by Krell and Classe, in the early years, amps such as MF's big 370 and 470 and Tandberg Mono's were recommended as cheaper alternatives to Krell and such, my own pair enjoyed a brief spell with modded crossovers to facillitate tri wiring, and were quite impressive with a brace of Linn Klouts.

I have spare treble units, spare new mids, for any future problems. And the crossovers were replaced a few years back and I went back to single wire, and the bass drivers were replaced with a new set from Kef last year. Plus I'm on my second Kube, so will probably be using mine for another 15 years or so.
Though I want to replace all the gaskets and seals, and fit new allen key bolts and decoupling washers to the drivers, if I can find a supplier of decent gasket strip and those pesky decoupling washers.

I would like them to have more power handling and less compression at high levels, I run mine through around 500w-600w 4ohm of Krell pre-power and regulary have them at 12oclock, and have even had them with the pre volume full for short periods, I think the Krell pre's have less gain than my previous Audio Research.

I wouldn't mind trying them with digital room eq?

Edit; have you read the Stereophile reviews?

http://www.stereophile.com/floorloudspeakers/550/index5.html

 

I like Kefs too, I like the punchy no nonsense, and of course the rhythm and timing

I am looking for some Reference 4's but cannot seem tofind them in a decent finish, Rosetta Burr.

May be try looking at Proac Response, or the beautiful Ruarks.

For me, looks with regard to speakers to important, but the electronics I am not really bother, but the speaker have to blend in and be appealing to the eye.

 

Amazing speakers.

 

Hi Greg,

I just looked up some old posts on another website, to Quote.

Got the b200,s back from Wembley loudspeakers and have put them all back together in the 105.3s.
Can't praise Wembley loudspeakers enough, they were very proffesional and helpful.
They did have a bit of trouble getting the centre foams but got them eventually.
They told me there is not much they can't repair and the kef units are allways worth doing.
The bill was £150.40p all in which I thought was very reasonable considering the work done.

So I would guess they could probably do the paper cone 10" SP1215 bass drive units? And no doubt would be cheaper than the £325 I paid for four new drivers.

Regards,
Steve