Speakers around the £3.5k mark

Actually, it's a 12" driver and a 50L cabinet that's the minimum. Baffles are very important though.

 

Ant, can I ask your opinion on the sliced paper drivers? What one did you try?

 

Nicely put Joel.

Going further in response to the tirade from Shin above, there are a number if inconsistencies in the post. As I pointed out before, Shin doesn't seem to know what bass unit he used.

Following that we get a diatribe pointing out the obvious with regards to speaker design in an attempt to convince us that his alledged work reaped benefits. Now firstly the cabinet. Going to all the lengths that he claims to have can only have improved on the original ATC design if either cabinet resonances are identifiable on a plot from ATC or the change in baffle shape somehow improves off axis behavior. In both cases, in order to establish an improvement, the original design would have neewded to be available to act as a reference. Yet in another post (somewhat less vitriolic than the norm), he admits to have very little experience of the standard ATC offerings, save for a short listen to the SCM50ASL Anniversary Tower. So no reference exists.

There may well be sonic differences given particularly the different crosover points (easy to do with a DEQX ), but these may well be more of a case of tuning the speaker to the listening enviroment rather than making quantum advances on the reference he is unfamiliar with.

No doubt the abov e will bring the usual toorent of abuse from Shin, (you only have to look at his posts history to see the very unpleasent manner that characterises the vast magority of "contributions"), but hey, if he can't take the truth then that's not my problem.

 

Well at least I have a design that is now out in the public domain and being enjoyed by a music and hifi lover who enjoys quality in both finish and sound.

What have we ever seen from yourself? Nothing, oh wait a sub. I'm guessing the fact you never shown the rest is because they simply aren't good enough for you to feel confident about showing?

Its clear you just looking for an argument, twisting truths and generally being your usual and predictable self.

I'm bored now, so that's my 'charity case' replies done for today.

 

Thanks for the links. I couldn't help noticing though that the threads ended in acrimony, with people accusing you of an unsicentific approach and having no data to back up your claims, of over doing things, and then you throwing your customary wobbly and threatening the trolls and the forum Class.

Exactly my point. You have absolutely no proof that the whole excercise did not just bring you full circle and that you didn't end up simply copying the ATC model to all intents and purposes - it's just that it took you a hell of a long time to get a pair

you should have told me - I'd have got you a pair Are you sure about the published T&S Specs? I could always dig them up for you, although it's easier with Volt these days

Exactly, you cannot tell us any differences in fact can you other than yours took a ling time to build

Not a sealed cab of circa 4 cu.ft? Not without a large amount of EQ or ultra low efficiency. You are going to be a good 10db down - the F3 point will be more like 100hz although the roll off characteristics will be excellent.

The problem here Shin is this whole episode started with YOU dismissing the rest (in this case a long standing forum member) because YOUR opinion and experience is king. The fact that you don't realise that says a great deal about your personality.

The difference is with me, what you see is what you get, and I'm not trying to get something out of you My business lies elsewhere.

 

I for one would like to see you answer tonys question mike - it did seem you were somewhat evasive.

Perhaps you can put up one of your own designs at the same time?

The avoidance of the atc mid problems would be worthwhile just on its own...

Its extremely unlikely the sound would be that convergent - plus Shin will have optimised for his own taste. The choice of drivers is only one contribution to the sound.

 

I tried the 18W8451 which is a 6.5" midbass.

Good all around competent drivers, warm and inviting yet still present plenty of detail. I've also got to say that they reach deep for the driver size and the quality of the bass is great. For a 6.5" I'd say they're one of the best for bass actually. Overall I found them very easy to work with and you weren't forced into using steep slopes, you could easily get by with a 2nd order XO and because they have the wide pass band you'd get a 2nd order acoustic slope. No absolute need for notch filters thanks to the nice response and just a BSC depending on your baffle size but a 350hz for a 24cm wide baffle worked well for me.

I crossed to a Scan 9700 at 2Khz and it worked well. The Scan drivers are all varying degrees of over priced but they've never really made a bad one, some average and some are very well regarding such as Skannings 9900 Revelator and 8645 mid. So you always know your getting a certain level of competence when buying into the brand. Personally I think Seas offer as much performance for less in quite a few cases, in particular is their treated paper range which has always sounded great for not much money.

Just looking around in my old projects folder, don't seem to have one of the finished speakers but here's the most complete one I could find:





I eventually redid the veneer in oak which was much easier to match and generally a better quality veneer. The finish was a high gloss lacquer that I buffed out and the baffle was 25mm Birch Ply that I sprayed in a piano black. I eventually sold them to my cousin who's still very much enjoying them.

 

BBV. Tony's question was incorrect so could not be answered. The simple answer is that having been in the industry many moons ago I still have a number of long standing friends who know me for who I am - not what they may make out of me. It's nice to enjoy that relationship. Tony probably finds that rather difficult to comprehend.

 

Oh the irony. Your rep precedes you as a shit stirrer who likes his own way.

I can only assume you were a woman in a previous life. Only they would over egg something as trivial as blokes getting passionate about audio. Things do get heated but out of 2200+ posts I can count on my finger and toes how many of those contained hot headed comments. Its funny how audiophilenoob,who is a member over there are, and I keep in regular contact over email. This was a person who I had disagreements with but also knew enough to have a sensible and interesting discussion with. He's now designing and building his own drivers in the states.

I've also gain at least 20+ email contacts whom I keep in touch and swap idea's with from that project. I also regularly get emails from DIYA forum members asking for advice on anything ranging from XO design, DRC, cabinet construction and finishing or just to sound out on idea's they have and want a second opinion.

Hardly the sign of someone who has an attitude problem. Fact is I hate you and you know it. You have nothing to offer except school yard retort that usually boils down to other peoples experiences, projects or opinions being ridiculed.

As for the unscientific approach - have you seen 'The Extras' per chance? Because "a you av'in a laff!", "is he av'in a laff!". Nobody has ever said anything to that effect. I've always posted and provided data on my designs, especially when I'd been banging my head against a wall trying to sort out any issues I had.

Not a sealed cab of circa 4 cu.ft? Not without a large amount of EQ or ultra low efficiency. You are going to be a good 10db down - the F3 point will be more like 100hz although the roll off characteristics will be excellent.[/quote]

Again which is why I was banging on about actually trying this stuff out for real and not limiting yourself to a purely technical argument. All you've done there is modeled the response.

The ATC SB75-234SC does extent down extend down to 35hz -3dB inroom in a critically damped sealed 55ltr enclosure.

Model the Peerless XLS10 in an 18ltrs sealed enclosure using TS, looks poor right? Now go buy a BK XLS200 subwoofer which fits that exact modeling specification. What do we have now? An inroom response thats flat to at least 25hz and Illka, who does the Swedish sub tests, provided me with some data showing flat to 16hz in his room.

My point is that experience tells you to not always trust in specs and just go for something, try it and find out the truth. Modeling is far from infallible.

I've gotta laugh because I pulled someone up on a statement saying "hifi only starts with X". Then I offered a more balanced view and you decided to say yeah but all we've seen from you is an ATC copy, blurted an under developed view of the specifics of that design in an attempt to undermine a very good speaker that has more in common with other 3-ways than ATC own take.

It shows a lack of insight and understand, all you did was take a quick look at the driver line up, biased your views based on the fact they we hate each other and then got stuck in on your chosen crusade.

All this from me trying to offering some perspective on what is and what isn't 'hifi'. Your a joke.

The rest of your post is selective rubbish that again fits the your usual predilections.

Anyway my new amp cases just arrived.

 

Do you spend money with these people?

They love me down at ATC, Wilmslow Audio and Madisound.

 

Perhaps you could elaborate on your history in the audio industry and your engineeering background as well as any formal scientific training?

Also, you are not "trade" anymore in any sense is that correct?

It does seem odd you have abandoned all of this to sell mobile phones. Why not design and sell your own speakers rather than wasting your talents unblocking sim cards if your designs withstand scrutiny?

 

I'm pretty sure there is a lot more money in mobile phones than in a moribund hifi industry....

 

True - but I doubt its going into Mikes pocket

Money isnt everything - what about intellectual satisfaction? Nothing is more soul destroying than a creative talent lying idle.

 

Yeah, I guess if you are only able to afford to drive a new Porsche, then times must be hard.

 

Or it means you are having a mid-life crisis lol!

 

Oh yeah. Now thats what I'm talking about:

 

Roughly how old is this Mike anyway? He struck me as being younger than 40 something. I'm only 27 so have plenty more years to broaden my horizons and experience. I certainly hope I'm not that jaded when I'm 40-odd.

 

And inside... a 50watt gainclone!

 

He's 72.

Actually, I kinda feel quite sorry for you younger guys, what with tuition fees, sky high property prices and the death of proper company pension schemes. Must be hard to get a foot on the ladder. There are plenty of benefits in being older, trust me.