Squeezebox and DAC ideas

I've just set up a squeezebox system (SB3 wired) and although I'm pretty impressed with the playback (and useability), it's not as good as my standalone CD player in sound terms.

so, I was thinking that maybe a SB and an external DAC would get closer to the CDP (and maybe PSU mods too..)

so, I need DAC ideas - candidates up to around £400 probably (as this is the s/hand price of my Sonetteer), new or s/hand.

..or maybe even a CD player with a digi input so I can run the SB through the player's DAC section.

if anyone has played around with the SB and DAC combo, I'd appreciate your thoughts.

 

I am looking at

http://www.kandkaudio.com/digitalaudio.html

Tent Labs XO-DAC

Most probably with 12V accumulator PSU.

 

In order to realise the full potential of the SB, even using an external DAC, you need to improve the SB SPDIF o/p.

Take a look at oue website for few clues.

 

david,
is it possible to improve the output of the sb2 and still retain the existing casework. if so what would the cost be?
cheers


julian.

 

so far I've found that good info about dacs is a little thin on the ground. A few personal opinions but not much more.

plus finding ex-dem candidates is proving a little tricky. I don't fancy forking out 600plus for a new model if I can help it.

I've also been doing some more listening and the SB is definitley not up to the Sonneteer. The CDP has more detail, is sharper and has more realism. The SB sounds good but is more relaxed overall.

Maximising performance isn't really what I'm after. All the SB needs to do is match the Sonneteer. In other words, to keep the SB I don't want to make a backwards step.

 

i'd recommend an audio synthesis dax-2 direct from david heaton but it's likely to be over budget at 500+ quid.
you might want to look at some of the studio type dacs - you'd probably get a benchmark 2nd hand for about your budget if you're lucky. and there are various others that are pretty good, anyone got a modded superdac for sale?
you could also try a nos dac very cheap but also very musch a love it or loath it thing.
one i notice is that your only other source is a tuner - why not use internet radio, sell everything except the sb and get a lyngdorf / tact true digital amp. this takes a digital input and amplifies it directly, use the sb's volume control whcih is reputed to be pretty good.. might be a bit radical though.
cheers


julian

 

Hi Julian,

Unfortunately not. We designed a new PCB with an improved SPDIF circuit and DAC. That sits in a new box which is bigger than the original casework. The second box in our design houses a new PSU.

Interestingly enough we have had several enquiries from people with TACT systems, and delivered one yesterday with very good results.

I agree entirely with your comments re the NOS DAC. The two versions of these that I've listened to are too "smooth" for my taste, and seem to lose too much detail compared to what I'm used to.

Regards
Dave

 

dave,
shame that. never mind.
the nos dac i listened to (a derek shek example) was fine for the upper end but jsut didn;t have the bass control that i like - it was rather fruity though which was enjoyable but could get wearing. however it was being driven by a sb1 at the time which probably has one of the worst performing digital outs ever - the sb 2 is far, far better.
were the tact systems using the rcs pre's or running straight into theri true digital amps?
cheers


julian

 

I have read about it on the Lyngdorf Audio User Group...

What exactly did you deliver? Have you listened to the combination of SB and TacT?

 

I've been looking at the benchmark but I also noticed that WM rates the Apogee mini dac and the sonifex redbox units . The redbox comes in around £400 so it's a possibility.

I tried a NOS a while back actually but didn't really get on with it. It wasn't so much the bottom end for me that was lacking, rather the top end sounded rough and fizzy. I listen to a lot of acoustic work so voices need to be really clean and the NOS didn't cut it I'm afraid.

I do like a grand idea but I'm happy with the Densens for now. What I need is to test some dacs and if successful, then I can think about selling the CD player and tuner.

 

We delivered our SB2+. This particular customer wanted a digital o/p unit only, so we left out our own DAC and analogue outs.

There are pictures on our website if you'd like to take a look.

I'm not sure what the exact model numbers of the equipment being used are, but the system is essentially our SB2+, feeding a digital signal (SPDIF) into the TACT, feeding Dali speakers.

It was definitely a big improvement over the standard SB2 connected in the same way.

Regards
Dave

 

Anyone have any suggestions of a DAC to use with the Squeezebox that would offer balanced XLR output AND most importantly output level adjustable via remote control. Around £500-£700 new/second hand.

the Benchmark DAC1 would have be ideal if it had a remote control !

volume

 

andy - i'd recomend saving another 700 ish quid and getting an audio synthesis dax decade with the balanced boards. another dac that meets your criteria is the cec dx71 which you might find within your budget but you may need to import from the far east or usa.
cheers


julian.

 

Ouch, that's going to really hurt the finances.

I still keep coming back to the Benchmark DAC1 so maybe I will just have to adjust the volume manually. I see they do a neat silver non-rack mount version and that would suit the minimalist look I am going for. Anyone seen one of these for sale second hand?

 

Hi Andy,

I don't want to harp on about it, but if you spend money on an external DAC - especially if you are planning on spending a lot of money - you really need to take a look at improving the SPDIF output of the Squeezebox, or you will not realise all of the benefit of the external device.

We've found it makes a BIG difference.

 

Okay, I've bought myself a DAC to test with the SB.

No coax digi cable until tomorrow am so I'll have to wait before I can test it.

Dave,

Can you pm me some details of what you can do with the SB, including prices. In particular the PSU mods and SPDIF mods. I've seen the website but you don't include prices AFAICT.

 

Dave,

I understand what you're saying but I want to limit myself to about £500 on the DAC and leave the upgrades at that. I am trying to get off the upgrade "treadmill" and just listen to music again.

Your system does look tempting but.

 

Me too please.

Thanks,
Dunc

 

Ok, to simplify things a little, as a number of people have asked let me explain what we're doing.

We're not really offering a 'modding' service for SBs, the SB2+ is a complete SB based product and the only option we offer is whether it includes the internal DAC or not. The SB2+ includes both the wireless and wired network interfaces. We can also offer trade-ins against your existing SB2 if you require. Costs are from £600, depending on version and trade-in allowance.

In general, we don't believe that external DACs are a 'good thing' with the SB because:

(1) Using an external DAC requires you to use a serial digital interface and cable, and since these are rarely well optimised they can only introduce additional distortion to the timing information contained in the digital signal - further degrading jitter performance.

(2) Even given a perfect digital interconnect, the external DAC is still required to synchronise its internal clock with the incoming digital input - which again degrades jitter performance*.

We offer the external DAC option primarily for those customers who wish to use the SB2+ with a digital input system (like Lyngdof/TaCT) (where it would make no engineering sense to convert an analogue signal straight back to a digital signal using an ADC), and also to offer choice to those who have already invested signifcant sums in a seperate DAC. In all cases we have tried, we have found that the SB2+'s analogue output significantly outperforms the basic SB2/3 with an external DAC, and where practical we are more than happy to demonstrate this to people!

* Even an external DAC which uses an aynschronous re-sampling process rather than a PPL (like the Benchmark DAC1), the effects of the jitter are simply transformed into a different kind of artifact, rather than being eliminated completely.

If anyone would like any further information, please feel free to PM me, or drop me an email at david.young(at)at-view.co.uk

Regards
Dave

 

You have my pm Dave.