State of the industry...

What is the state of the hifi industry? Many hifi journos pontificate on this subject, but what about the average audiophile/enthusiast - that means you lot! Has the 'business' mentality killed what used to be a thriving underground, a community? There is so much scepticism in hifi, not just in relation to manufacturers/mags/dealers, but towards each other - why? I'm just looking for your opinions about the current state of hifi - have we never had it better, or has it never been worse?

 

Sam, how do you write for then? or maybe a spot of market research ? or are you just an intersted party

 

I have to say my love of hi-fi has led to a greater love for music. That was the case some 4yrs ago when I first stepped onto the playing field. Still the same now.....

I have come to appreciate so many more diverse types of music that I might never listened to before. Listening to my system makes me smile.

Roll on hi-fi!!!!

Ben

 

In reply to Wadia-meister, I'm just an interested and very concerned listener - no agenda, honest! I feel that today, business interests have turned a once geniune pursuit of quality and hi-fidelity, and not to mention passion for music, into just another marketing exercise where people are, by and large, sold below-standard, over-priced products, a situation which is perpetuated by an ever-conformist press, and an increasingly ignorant group of dealers. Smaller companies who do produce quality products struggle because of the nature of this business, where advertising rules. Add to this the fact that there is what I feel to be an almost ugly undercurrent of scepticism throughout the industry, and the end result is that I feel somewhat troubled to say that I'm an audiophile today. Even the term audiophile has negative connotations these days, often used to describe a non-music lover who is equipment obsessed. Many terms, such as 'high-end' and 'state-of-the-art' have been rendered almost meaningless except when we discuss price tags. In short I, and many people I know, feel the hifi industry has taken a severe wrong turn, and continues down this very questionable path because we, the consumers/music-lovers/audiophiles, keep buying the same products and hype.

 

No relation to Uncle Eric then

 

Son of Sam,

Welcome to the forum. You raised some very interesting points in your previous post which I am sure many of us would agree with.


One of the benefits of discussion forums like this is that by sharing our experiences, we can short circuit all the guff fed to us from the mags and dealers, hopefully enabling us to assemble fine sounding systems for the minimum outlay

 

You'll fit right in here then.

Im coughing at the minute from solder fumes from my kit pre-amp on the dining room table...

weve got people who use their PC as a hifi, valve lovers, people with digital amps, SET fans, Naim fans, vinyl fanatics and people who have only CDs, people with budget kit, and all the way up....

No shortage of scepticism here I find.

Welcome anyway SAM, why not put your gear and music preferences on the sticky page ?

Chris

 

I think that you're talking about some basic aspects of human nature.

Most people are followers, few are leaders and some are independent thinkers. There are companies that produce high quality products, some small and some not so small, but the majority of people will only buy what they are lead to believe is good.

Those people who lead or are in a position of influence often have their own agendas which have little to do with sound quality. Sadly, the same is true of many manufacturers.

Of the leaders who genuinely seek good sound quality many don't have the hearing skills to distinguish the great from the merely good.

However, there is an industry within the industry where truth rules supreme. This is what keeps it all alive and makes this pursuit worthwhile. Every now and again a member of this select group breaks out and hits the mainstream.

 

I'm not sure it's all as dramatic as your post perhaps imples. However, using magazines as my point, it's alMOst at the point where it's amusing! One MOnths favourite is then little MOre than average as the new (sponsored???) flavour arrives! The winnner of last years awards is old technology the following year! The av kit that meant to be a no compromise hifi option falls into the "doesn't make the grade" catagory as the newer MOdel is the only one to truly be worthy!

MO

 

So what does all of this tell you MO? That everything is a-okay, or that something isn't right? Hifi mags and journos clearly can't be doing their job properly if they think that every few months superior products are released - if that were the case then todays equipment would simply CREAM equipment from 20, 30, even 40 years ago, which blatantly isn't true, if you've ever heard any equipment from yesteryear - and I have. So what's going on? Don't try and take the 'diplomatic' standpoint, that is simply fencesitting in my view.

 

Sam I dont think its as clandestine as all that.

Hifi shops sell products that are currently in production, just like any other shop.

Magazines write about products that are currently in production, and preferably new releases. Just like any other specialist magazine.

Products which have a high volume of sales will warrant more interest and therefore magazine exposure than low volume manufacturing. Thats why the circulation of 'what hifi' is greater than all other hifi magazines in the UK combined.

The fact that there are/were good products in the 60's/70's 80's 90's etc etc doesnt really come into the above equation IMHO. Why would a magazine promote a product that you cant even buy anymore (apart from one or two secondhand?)

The releases of very expensive hifi equipment are closely tied with times of economic boom. Sales of lambourghinis and ferraris also ! - why shouldnt the richest of the rich be able to buy equipment costing tens of thousands or even hundreds of thousands of pounds?.. why shouldnt hifi manufacturers release products that will appeal to that market?


The hifi 'scene' so to speak encorporates many other aspects also - for example DIYers, The LS35a fan, vinyl fanatics, second hand buyers etc (as someone with an amp from 1985 and a DIY preamp in construction I fit some of these! ).

We live in a rich and diverse market economy, and I think the state of the industry reflects that. Furthermore - I believe the choices available are greater than they have ever been.... on the one hand you can buy a valve amp for under £600 now, a digital amp, solid state - class A, class A/B , class B etc etc !!


I think the recorded music industry has more flaws and more areas which need attention and improvement than the hifi manufacturing industry.


Thats my take on it anyway.

Interesting question BTW.
Chris

 

The mags and journos do their job and that is to make money like everybody does in every sector. Today there is much more pressure to be able to sell because the market is saturated. People have more choices to buy things, not only in in the sectors of their hobbies but in all others. You can buy anything everywhere.
Marketing is the most important factor to sell and telling the truth is not relevant. The consumer just get more and more disturbed by psychological marketing: Today you cannot even be in a chat room without some ... (censured) around you.
You cannot change that and you just have to be aware of it. In HiFi it means shut your ears when somebody has an interest in selling something and open them when you listen to music. Take your time and listen to different systems.
As you see: everything is ok!

 

I think, bottleneck, you're getting the cart before the horse. High sales volumes generate interest, hence there are reviews of that equipment? That makes no sense whatsoever - try reversing that scenario.

I'm not saying mags should (or could!) review older equipment, all I'm saying is there is a large amount of bullshit written about how much of an improvement new stuff is over the old, arbitrarily because it is new! I fear that if mags were truthful, then we may see manufacturers actually attempting to make genuinely better products instead of the constant re-badging and re-packaging we see year in, year out.

These are not simply idle thoughts or speculation, I know people who work, and have worked, within the hifi industry who see this everyday and are sick of it. Sure it's a business, but an immoral one since many of those who want to make money are doing so by deception. It's not clandestine or conspiratorial - no one 'decided' to do this suddenly, it's just the way the industry has evolved over the last couple of decades, but that's no excuse for the way it is run now, and we don't have to stand for it either.

I think most people are in denial or are complacent, or even try the chickenshit 'I'll be diplomatic about this' option (trying to sound like a balanced, well-informed person and usually failing miserably), because they are reluctant to criticise something they are directly involved in, ie. we buy the mags, we buy the hardware, we buy the cables etc etc. I know, I was reluctant to believe any of this because of the thousands of pounds I've spent, but that doesn't change the facts!

And in reply to titian, of course there is a multitude of products and places to buy them, but we all rely on information to decide what and where to buy. If that information is controlled and/or distorted (as it most definitely is in hifi) then that means people actively have to seek out the info they need to make an informed choice, which isn't what most people do, since they rely on the hifi press/dealers to do this job for them. Everything is most definitely NOT ok...

 

Humm, SOS have you lost your job recently?, a spot of Axe grinding in there some where
Maybe try another forum for your polarised views possibly?, I think you need to give a little more credit to the guys on here, whoo'd have thought a milliant hifi revolutionary wow, I doff my hat sir, such a breath of fresh air
Or Possibly a Jason Hector fan club memeber

 

Chickenshit? Erm.... not at all! Not fencesitting as you *accused* me earlier either. It's just that, in all honesty. It's not that important to me.

It's not some tyrant oppressor ruling over us with an iron fist! It's hifi! A lot of what you say is true. Rebadging and changing the "1" to a "2" on the *new* MOdel is a poor sign.

But ultimately, as much as the press may be tainted by advertisement obligations, my/your ears aren't.

My fence sitting is simply that although I see that it's wrong that a large chunk of our sources and advice are possibly biased, it's also possible to the MOst common advice and "trust your ears". Even WHF? will regularly mention this!!! The media and these forums are good for advice and for building short lists and such. But it's up to the individual to decide if they should take that advice as gospel or guideline!

The whole UE incident over on avforums is interesting. But it's as much a sign of human nature as it is anything to do with hifi. People looking out for no1!

Perhaps the one truely terrible thing here is that smaller companies find it had to reach their audience. But even still if these companies have a truly class product and make the effort to make potential customers aware of what they believe in, then the class will talk for itself!

I think what Chris was saying is true in a way. At the budget end, just say marantz release a new product. It's guaranteed to be a product which will be of interest to the average WHF? reader. It will work both ways. Having it's own MOmentum which will help the magazine which with a positive (biased?) review will in turn further help the kit!

So, not chickenshit Just don't think it's as terrible as you!

Cheers

MO

p.s. how about listing your kit and musical interests and what you look for in your set up?

 

The industry was ever thus, I think. Not much has changed, most of the hifi business (including the mags) has always been a racket designed to get people to endlessly buy new gear. There's always been exceptions, but they've always been rare.

-- Ian

 

Ian,

I dont think that you should just limit that to hifi, I would think that just about every hobby where there are mags that do reviews is the same

 

What Hi Fi, What Home Cinema, What Car, What PC, What Cellphone, What Mortgage, What Wife (that's a new title I'm about to start up by the way)...Hi Fi choice, Home Cinema Choice, PC Choice etc etc..Everything you read - magazines, papers, websites, forums, (especially if you're an average blokey sort of bloke interested in these sort of things), everything you see on TV, or hear on the radio (except for the BBC, & I'm still not sure exactly how they deal with 'product placement'), revolves around being sold to, creating aspirations & defining 'standards' of what is good & bad. It is not just HiFi. It's the way it is & it can only get worse...if you think it's a problem.

I have no problem with it...see it for what it is.

 

...dear oh dear, the apathetic consumer society, mediocrity abound...

 

Sam,

I dont really think most of us are apathetic, we know the score and are not taken in by the hype. Many of us here embrace the concept of 'free hifi' i.e. buying secondhand at a good price and then selling on at cost or even a small profit if we fancy a change. If thats not playing the system, I dont know what is.

BTW, what system do you run?