state of the NHS

Re: Dr McPeake

This is a common tabloid perception which in reality is not true. The NHS is run extremely efficiently.

To bring us into line with other Western developed countries, NHS funding would have to increase by around 50%.

 

Re: Re: Dr McPeake

Or, decreased by about 50% if you were to bring it into line with Portugal . Portugal's state healthcare system makes the NHS look like paradise in comparison.

When we lived in London my (Portuguese) wife was absolutely blown away by the standards of care, quality and efficiency in the NHS.

If I lived in the UK I wouldn't have BUPA or similar as I feel the NHS would be more than adequate. Here in Portugal though we do use the private system.

Michael.

 

Dr McPeake

I would be pleased to pay an additional 50% because I could then stop paying the monthly £120.00 premium to my medical insurance.

I do not say this in order to bait you but surely having a fully funded NHS service would work against you as the need for lucrative private work would dry up.

Regards

Mick

 

A quick calculation tells me that I already pay approx 44% of my total income (I am not a high earner) to the government in terms of both direct, indirect, NI and local government taxation. I would imagine pretty much every working person pays this or more. Which does indeed beg the question of where it all goes. I don't know the share of the kitty the NHS gets but it's beggars belief that the government can't find more money for them.

 

Mick, I suppose that that is one way of looking at things. There is more to life than money. Having said that, NHS consultants are poorly paid in comparison with many of their foreign counterparts.

The secret of happiness is to not compare your own situation with that of others, I guess.

I don't think you understand the tax implications of a 50% rise in NHS funding, Mick. And I'll bet that your private insurance scheme contains exclusion clauses.

 

The burden on the NHS is increasing because of an ageing population. Some govt doofus recently suggested that if smokers stopped, and people adopted a 'healthy lifestyle', this would decrease the burden on the NHS.

It seems obvious to me that the opposite is true.

 

Dr McPeake

Yes there are exclusions to my medical insurance, please remember I am trained to read contracts in depth and also there are financial limits on long term or expensive treatment. I would be in trouble if I became infected with AIDS. Naturally with the sex activity associated with a man of my age, that is fortunately an unlikely prospect.

Therefore I would genuinely welcome returning to the NHS if things improved.

I think the publics complaint is that you can readily get first class treatment very quickly by going private .

Incidently I am also paid considerably less than my European counterparts, so I be poor but happy.

Regards

Mick

 

slaphead,
the asthma incident happened in texas (where everyones a millionaire) and was described to show the calousness of the american health system... even portugals system is preferable by the sounds of it.
cheers


julian

 

!!!??!!!***@!!?! Really? I just worked mine out for next year (we pay a lump sum every year - three actually, Direkt Bundessteuer (Federal), Staatssteuer (Cantonal) and Gemeindesteuer (local council). The lot amounts to 19% of my income. Mind you, if we had high taxes as well as the high cost of living and the high cost of (compulsory) medical insurance, we'd be in trouble.

 

Julian: Must make 2 notes to self - 1 Read posts more thouroughly and, 2 Don't go to America

Tones: I was including things like VAT, Tax on fuel, Alchohol duty etc as part of indirect taxation and I'm sure in Switzerland there must be some equivalent to these. Without taking indirect taxation into account I'm looking at about 29% but then again part of that is National insurance which, In theory , goes to state pensions and the NHS.

 

You probably ought to include employers NI which is carefully hidden away except on your P60. But if it didn't exist your employer could pay you more.

I think government tax take is in the region of 42% of GDP. Which is way too high, whatever the needs of the NHS.

The way I see it is that I'm paying more and more to sit in traffic jams for longer, and unless I'm bleeding on the floor there's no point in venturing into the local A&E. The few times I've been the waiting room has made me ill. And I was just keeping my wife company!

The best bit of my experience with the NHS has been the local maternity unit, which was pretty good especially when we needed an emergency Caesarean, except that the latest news is that they are no longer going to be doing them on site.

Paul

 

There was an interesting comment from Frank Field recently that suggested that you could fill in the 'Get Health Cover In Europe' form (available at your local Post Office) and go and get your hip replaced in France with no wait and the NHS pays.

Seems like an interesting venture to me.

Paul

 

Re: Dr McPeake

It can be quite tough on the knees.

 

I think government tax take is in the region of 42% of GDP. Which is way too high, whatever the needs of the NHS.

I guess that depends on what kind of society you want. The NHS currently consumes about 7% of GDP.

This 7% figure could be higher, perhaps, if ill-conceived & deeply unpopular foreign wars, for example, assumed a lower priority in the minds of our glorious and victorious leaders.

 

Swiss Mehrwertsteuer is 7.5% on nearly everything.

 

it does make one wonder, they say taxes are low, but if you tot them all up, we are paying a fair whack, 1k poll tax, and all the vat, and it is only natural to wonder where all the cash is going.

I am not sure I accept the ageing population explanation, I don't think life expectancy is HUGELY different to 10 or 20 years ago, maybe a few years, yet the extra burden on the nhs is way out of proportion to that.

part of the problem is that we are more 'soft' and going to get treatment for minor ailments that traditionally were grinned and beared or used home remedies.
I know people who work as paramedics, and you would not believe the rubbish they get called to ..its supposed to be accidents and EMERGENCIES.
not minor colds, cut fingers, swollen testicles. I could go on....

Now we are more aware, too, and just like in our consumer society there are more toys due to technology, there are ever more drugs we are becoming dependant upon, just witness some peoples prescriptions, more and better treatments, and more people are going to get things sorted to, rather than putting up with them.

I am not a tory, and not labour, not anything in fact, probably liberal, but I do tend to think maybe the torys are right in making everything run efficiently, not in the beaurocratic million managers efficient, but do away with the superflous desks and make more beds. I think there is scope for tax cuts if you get rid of managers.
Its quite a modern phenomenon all this managerial stuff and comes partly from all the legislation and rubbish that has to be enforced, I don't think you can get rid of it easily.

correct, a lot of their jobs are talk talk talk, endless suits with briefcases and half horn rimmed spectacles in meetings ,drinking coffee getting paid, to dream up scenarios like taking a neurosurgeon off if he takes too many croutons. the bullshit procedures are myriad.

Slaphead, the reason you were seen ASAP for asthma is its potentially immediately life threatening, and A/E medicine is reasonably down to a fine art in prioritising very serious conditions like asthma and MI's over cut fingers and even broken limbs.

 

When I was a lad, ward sisters were called 'ward sisters'. Then they became 'ward managers'. Same job, different title.

Hence a huge increase in 'managers'.

The population is ageing, and this produces a big increase in demand for care. We are getting much better at keeping ill people alive for longer periods. In addition, the practice of medicine is becoming more expensive with fancy expensive scanners and new expensive drugs, for example.

The fact remains that the NHS is an extremely efficient organisation.

 

I lived in Australia for a while and things may have changed since, but they ran a system whereby there was state care based on national insurance, but you could opt out and pay private medical insurance. If you chose to do this, there was a reduction in your national insurance contributions. Some of your insurance still went to pay for the state care. This seemed a reasonabley fair compromise.

In response to the consultant that was suspended, if he indeed did steal from his employers, the police should have been involved. If an adult working in Smiths nicked a book, he could potentially face a prison sentence. It is the breach of trust that makes the offence more serious than a member of the public shoplifting.

If it had been a porter who had been caught delving into the soup tureen, I suspect he or she would have been sacked on the spot. I do not see why a consultant should get preferential treatment. The Hospital trust obviously lacks the balls. This is a prime example of justice by media.

I agree that it may be petty and that patients may suffer as a result, buts lets have some parity.

Rod

 

tones,
are you counting council tax (or the equivalent) sales tax, vat, petrol tax, road tax, insurance tax, and all the other stealth taxes that the governemtns of this messed up world like to splatter everywhere?
cheers


julian

 

If it had been a porter who had been caught delving into the soup tureen, I suspect he or she would have been sacked on the spot. I do not see why a consultant should get preferential treatment. The Hospital trust obviously lacks the balls. This is a prime example of justice by media.

Yes. Hanging's too good for this dangerous criminal. What's the world coming to? In my day...(continued page 94)