Sub or new speakers?

I need some bass in da place boyeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!!!!!!

Or something like that.

On certain tracks the low end seems ok, but on other tunes it's nothing MOre than a "pfft" hinting where there's no doubt some big bad dirty bass lines that are beyond my kit's reach.

My mission 780s state a low end that's well, not very low at 65hz +/-3DB

I'm guessing they're the place to change.

In some ways my kit does a lot of what I like. I listen to quite a veriety of stuff though, and it doesn't have some of the presence and scale with some of the MOre full on stuff.

This is all just hypothetical for now. I've not upgraded for a while. And haven't really heard much kit for the last couple of years.

So, I'd like to keep the plus points of the 780s (reasonable with MOst things, nice mid and highs, and can pull off the subtler stuff I listen to with sometimes spine tingling ability), but want some MOre grunt without sacrificing that.

It's a small room compared to MOst, so a sub would allow me to perhaps "tune" the bass MOre to suit, while keeping the 780s plus points. But would I be better off changing completely?

Or let me guess, it's my MF X series kit that's the problem :lol: (X24K DAC and XA2 amp)

Thoughts please

 

So, how much money you throwing around, MO?

Dunc

 

theres an ex-display MJ acoustics Pro 50 hanging around where I work for £200 MO. As new condition basically. Let me know if you're interested.

 

Not really set on a budget. My first thoughts were toward a sub and would have been thinking about £500ish. The room aint that big, so being able to have that bit MOre control over the lower freq's would be a plus.
But this is just looking a bit down the line for now and i'm open to complete speaker change. I'd then be willing to go a bit higher. Not sure what would be overkill for the current set up, and what would be sensible (performance wise) limit.

Rory. Thanks, I'm not looking to shell out just yet though. Sounds a bargain though!
A few people seem to have used the 780s with the pro 50 and bigger MOdels, so would probably be a decent combo.

Cheers

MO

 

Sell the Missions, add £500 and buy yourself a display pair of Quad 22Ls. Much more of the same plus all the bass extension you're likely to need - although they do like a little bit of space so you could have a look at the 21Ls which aren't exactly bass-shy either.

 

I'd go for a sub, definitely. Theres not many speakers that'll give you the bass extension of a decent little sub.

 

Cheers

I think the 780s will probably go downstairs if I go for replacement speakers.

I'm happy with ex-dem or sh, though prefer to be able to home deMO.

£500ish for ex-dem or sh sounds about in line with the current set up. But i'd be open to suggestions a couple of hundred MOre if was really worth it.

Like I've said, just putting the feelers out right now.

To give a better impression, the room's only 2.75m x 3.20m with the speakers along the shorter wall.

 

In your price range I'd pick up a 2nd hand Paradigm servo-15. Check over on AV Forums, I think there are a couple for sale at the moment. They are an absolute steal at the price. I've heard good things about the new subs from Mordant Short but have no experinece of them myself. I don't think they approach the performance of the servo though.

You could also look at the sub from AV123 (http://www.av123.com/products_product.php?section=subwoofers&product=1.1), you wouldn't be able to demo but it is supposed to perform well and have an excellent finish. There are also contenders in your price bracket from SVS (http://www.svsubwoofers.com/) and Hsu (http://www.hsuresearch.com/).

I just remembered there is a very good deal on the Ruark log here http://www.bkelec.com/New/Special_Offers/sp9.htm

There won't be much under 30Hz though. They also do this http://www.bkelec.com/New/Special_Offers/sp5.htm

 

The 22Ls are supposedly -6dB @ 25Hz in-room (according to HFC's measurements anyway).

 

I was talking about the Ruark Log.

BTW, I tend to give no consideration to "in-room" measurements. The question then becomes, what room?

Anechoic is best

If you really want deep bass in a new speaker without spending a fortune try PMC. Their transmission line design is quite effective.

 

Guys, stop worrying about the specs and start thinking about how the kit sounds with music!

I'd take a speaker system that times properly and sounds good with music but has less bass extension over one that reproduces subsonics but cant do rhythm and timing anyday.

 

Thanks Daneel.

They all seem very reasonably priced! I've little experience of subs, and haven't much experience with new kit for a while in general. I was expecting to be needing to push £500 for a sub that would (though also be used for AV), be up to the job for music.

I'm still not sure which would be the best way to go. A sub would fix my main issues with my set up, and would obviously be MOre versatile to work with the small room.

But perhaps I'd be better off going for a complete change and giving the whole sound a lift.

I guess the obvious thing to do will be to home dem a sub with the 780s closer to the time to get an idea what to expect.

Oh, and shallow as it is, I should add looks to the criteria

 

MO! remember that for the SVS, Hsu and Av123 subs you will have to pay for shipping, duty and VAT. My SVS PC Ultra lists for $1149 but by the time it got to my door it was near £900.

I strongly suggest tracking down a servo-15 as I can't see you buying blind and am not convinced the others available in this country have anywhere near the same ability at the price.

 

Mo, if you are interested I've got a JMLabs Electra SW33A sitting in its box doing nothing. It's the next down the range from the JMLabs Electra SW900 Sub that Midland Audio X-Change have on sale s/h at £799.

The 13" driver in the SW33 probably won't go as low as the 15" Paradigm, but I think it'll hold a tune better.

Drop me a line if you're interested.

Regards

Hex

 

my Logrhythm very happily goes down to an audible 25hz. They were very modest in their specifications. Its a fantastic sub although I am slightly confused by BKelec's pricing at the moment.

 

Having owned one, I'd be wary of using the Servo 15 in a small room - it may be too much - it has some serious output and really plummets the depths. It can hold a tune fine (low distortion) but I found it tricky to set up - I certainly wouldn't advocate buying/using one without the X30 control box that gives you the variable phase control. Anyway - have you seen the size of the bugger - we're talking mini-bar dimensions!

If it were me I'd be on the lookout for something like a Velodyne SPL800/SPL1000 - these are really small but with serious amplification (750 watts RMS) - they play clean/fast but still go plenty deep enough. The last of the series 1 models were sold at discount prices (original rrp's were pretty steep) and some do crop up used on the various AV forums - my mate bought a used SPL1000 from someone would bought it new (when they were discounted - which was only a few months ago i.e. it was nearly new) and paid under £400 for it - the original rrp was £950.

Other options - REL ST's of course, B&W ASW675, MJA's etc.

Matt.

 

The one you're listening in perhaps? My own listening room's certainly far from anechoic.

I'm sure someone was saying recently that the PMC "usable frequency range" figures are rather on the optimistic side - they suggest down to 22Hz for the FB1 because of the gentle bass rolloff, but in actual fact they're already down 6dB by about 40Hz or so and at 22Hz they're at -15dB, or something along those lines anyway.

And Robbo, bass extension's quite important to me with my taste in music - I appreciate it's not for everyone, but I'd rather have a speaker that can reproduce subsonics over a more punchy but lightweight one.

 

Pete,

Of course, you listen to 'proper' music. Slightly different requirements to us heathens

 

For the record: your words, not mine.

MO!, if you do try out some subs I'd be very interested to hear how you get on.

 

Well I could have said that as you listen to that classical shite your requirements are less stringent than mine (at least when it comes to timing) - but that would probably upset a few of the buffs on the forum