Sugesstions for deck upgrade?

Guys,

Haven't got the money yet, spent it all on me van. I need to save but I always find saving up with a view to what you are saving for is a whole lot easier than just saving. Anyway, upgradeitus is starting to hit.

I want to upgrade my vinyl playback system and want some suggestions as to where the best investment might be. The current setup is a Michell Focus One, Rega RB250 (OL structural mod) and a Shure V15VxMR. The phono amp is the optional Densen DP-01 MM board in a Densen Beat B100 amp, driving a pair of Kef Q55.2s. The deck sits on two 3cm thick sheets of mdf with sorbothane pads between and under and it has solid cone gyrodec feet rather than the springy feet the Focus has as standard (I still have them, but found the solid cones tightened things up a lot, once I'd put the simple isolation in place)

Musically, I listen to a lot of sixties rock, pop and soul plus punk and garage, reggae, indy, country, female vocals, rock and roll, and electronica (of the experimental and beepy kraftwerk kind). I can't say classical's my bag and definitely cannot stand Jazz (sincerest apologies to Jazz buffs out there, but me personally - I don't get it - I'm glad you do ). Rap and modern RnB aren't for me either

The sound I have I like - it isn't fatiguing, I can listen for hours, good articulate bass, fast and dynamic enough, nice and smooth and detailed in the mid. I guess if it has anything failing here its possibly a bit rolled off at the top.

I'm looking for the next upgrade and want to retain the qualities it does well, but just bring a bit of sparkle and detail to the top end. What I don't want is to make it harsh or strident.

Suggestions anyone? If I can, I'd like to keep the deck (I love its looks - not a hifi necessity I know but ... y'know), but anything else goes - mods to the deck or arm, new arm, new cart, new phono stage, second hand stuff, cheap, or even not so cheap tweaks whatever.

I know it may be the deck that ultimately may be holding things back, but its really not a bad deck - easily better than a P3 I'd say. If a new deck's the only way to go though, then say so, but like I'd like to explore other options first.

I can imagine spending mebbe 400 quid to get where I want, but obviously would like to spend less.

Any suggestions?

 

I haven't heard a Focus but I doubt you'll get something better replacing it for £400.

What about PSU upgrades? IME a better PSU makes a surprisingly large improvement, both to speed stability and also to all-round depth and body. I assume the Focus has a DC motor, it may be worth talking to Origin Live about their motor and PSU upgrades. Or even young Fox, here, he knows about PSUs.

-- Ian

 

I'm afraid you have just answered your own question! The Focus One is sonically mid way between a P3 and a TD160S, and IMHO you are at (or possibly beyond) its limits now. The good thing is that they are quite collectable so it will eBay rather nicely, probably 150 without arm and cart (you need them for later…). It would make slightly more if it is either a very early one with the Transcriptors Reference 'pointy' platter or if it's the final 'S' varient. If you have the original Michell unipivot Focus arm knocking about add another 100 for the combo.

So, that leaves you with an arm and a cart and say 550 in the kitty. As you like the Michell a second hand Gyro is the obvious choice, though I would personally choose a Spacedeck, decent LP12 or Xerxes. There are some cheaper second hand decks that are far better sonically than a Focus One, but ain't nearly as pretty, the Logic DM101, Heybrook TT2 and various Systemdecks spring to mind. If you are up for making a nice plinth a Garrard 401 would be an option too. You would also be in budget for a new Nottingham Horizon without arm which is a stunner at the price. All of these will sound far better than using the cash elsewhere IMHO.

Tony.

 

Oh all right, I might be wrong!

I didn't think about adding the s/h value of the Focus. £550 would indeed get you something very decent.

-- Ian

 

I've got a nice AR turntable for sale if you're interested

Seriously it sounds like you have a similar problem to me. I want a better sound from my Project RPM6/Ortofon MC15 setup. Like you I really like the look of the RPM6 and I'm trying to persuade myself that it will be great with a better cartridge but I suspect I may have to change - either a secondhand P25 or Nottingham Horizon.........watch this space.

Donut

 

On the P25 question, this might be useful info:

http://www.pinkfishmedia.net/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=4733

-- Ian

 

Thanks Tony and Ian. Oh well, I suspected it may be the case, but was hoping against hope or someone here might have some knowledge of some neat bit of tweakery that might drag that extra bit out of it.

I'll start saving and thinking - it will have to be pretty though. My other half has finally moved in (bringing her 800+ CD collection with her ), and she thinks its the prettiest thing that ever span at 33 and a third. I don't think the "well it may look like a horses arse, but just listen to how good it sounds" argument will wash - as much with me as with her .

I might just get away with a gyro - but not sure if I ever liked those big brass knobs underneath myself, nor am I that keen on sprung decks - its to do with not liking wobbly decks as a user, not a philosophical viewpoint - a friend had an old Thorens and it used to freak me out, especially after a few jars. Perfectly happy to go second hand though.

Having had the thing apart and had a good poke around I has assumed it was the motor was the real weak link (the platter and bearing are actually pretty impressive little items), and so had pondered the DC route as Ian suggested, but from what you are saying it probably wouldn't be enough of a diff to be cost effective. Is that fair?

Hmm mebbe if I were looking at new, the Horizon or perhaps sticking with Michell, the TecnoDec - almost within budget and I suppose a sort of spiritual descendent of the Focus - probably get better value second hand though.

 

s'alright, think I'll pass

Indeed. I like it because its very retro yet pretty modern at the same time, its beautifully built and does its job really well ... I just want it to do it better. You know wave a magic wand at it

 

Cheers Ian,

But by the time I've saved me pennies I suspect the boat will have left on this one.

 

Hi Uncle

I have had an 'S' since 1984. I agree that the Focus is better than the P3. I also prefered the 'S' over the Heybrook. The LP12 was significantly better than the 'S' though. Two years ago I thought about getting a Gyro SE and it was a good upgrade from the 'S' but I chose the Pink Traingle PT Too / Kuzma which was clealry better than the Gyro and I have just fitted with a Dynavector VX20.

I think that the Gyro is better than the Linn and this would give you the looks and upgrade that you want; this is what you should go for if your budget will stretch for it. If you are tight on budget then I have decided to sell both of my T/Ts and the 'S' is as new and I would rather it went to a real fan than someone who does not really appreciate what a great deck it is. I am in no rush to sell either and want to archive some LPs first. PM me if you want to talk more.

Dominic

 

Hi Dominic,

Thanks for the offer, but think I'll have to pass. The 'S' would I guess be just a little upgrade and no insult intended, but the PT Too failed the "Horses Arse Test".

I found some piccies online and showed it the other half and she said (This might make Goomer laugh) "It looks like a coffin". That aside, I've heard from a number of poeple that its a fine deck and way, way ahead of its time, but I would worry about backup. One of the things I love about Michell is that they'll still provide a full service on all decks past and present .... I can feel a gyro coming on at some point in the (probably distant) future.

Has anyone hear heard the TecnoDec against the Gyro? It strikes me, its a gyro minus the suspension and the dangly bits (ooer).

 

If you are staying with Michell I'd definitely go for the Gyro – it is the classic Michell deck, is better than the Techno to start off with, and it is open ended with regard to upgrading later should you want to. The Techno is a dead end by comparison. A seriously good arm and cart don't look out of place on a Gyro, and over time you can move it up to near Orbe spec. I know you say you are less than keen on suspended decks, but the Gyro is easy to set up and holds its setup very well indeed – its not a deck that needs fiddling with all the time (I'm sure both Ian and Fox will back me up on this point). There is a reason for the ease and stability of setup - it 'hangs' from its springs rather than sitting on them the way a Linn or Thorens does, it is therefore not trying to fall off them all the time!

Tony.

 

Fiddle free indeed, they just don't go "off". A little care with the initial setup and then I simply give it a quick once over every six months or so. My Gyro has all the Gorbe mods and sounds bloody lovely, I'd have to spend serious amounts of money to better it. And with the Orbe platter you don't get the silly dangly bits under the platter, so it looks beautiful as well.

A secondhand Gyro will sound very good as is, and the upgrade path is relatively cheap and painless (DC motor if it's the older AC type, upgraded PSU for about £300, and an Orbe platter for about the same). Go for it!

-- Ian

 

. She's not wrong either - I'm hoping to be buried in mine and have lined mine with purple crushed velvet in anticipation. Has seriously improved the sound, especially on my Chameleons albums.

As far as suggestions, I have to concur with what others have already said (and what you're secretly hankering after?) and go for a Gyro. Great looks, sound, versatility of upgrade path, service support, value retention, etc., etc..

Regarding what you we're saying about the sound of your current set-up being slightly rolled off at the top, could this be to do with the Shure's (legendary) flat frequency response? I'm not taking the p*** here, as you know I'm a fan of the Shure's myself, but I wonder if this could be the cause of the dissatisfaction here - how does the top end of the Shure compare to your previous 530(if you can remember and/or compare)?

I like the suggestion of a Garrard, too - you could then keep the Rega and V15 and concentrate funds on a kickarse plinth.

Good luck with it, and keep us informed,

Chris.

 

Uncle Ants,

If you like the Michell sound, I'd say stick with Michell and go for a used Gyro SE.

I am a Gyro SE owner and have heard it alongside the Technodec both with RB300 tonearm and the Gyro won hands down. To get the Technodec to sing up to stock Gyro standards requires add-ons like the HR power supply, the Technoarm or better, serious isolation etc and by the time you've done all that, you could have bought a Gyro SE (or even a used one for better value). As Tony said, the Gyro is open-ended but the first upgrade IMO, should be the power supply. This improves dynamics and the bass. The cleaner the power being fed to the power supply, the better the effect on the sound. The Orbe platter, IMO, is the last upgrade one should consider after the power supply, tonearm and cartridge upgrades.

Whilst I agree that the Gyro holds it's set-up well, trying to achieve "the bounce" i.e. 100% vertical bounce can best be described as an art. As you may know, when pressed from the centre, the Gyro must bounce vertically and freely for several seconds with NO sideways or jelly-like movement. Any sideways movement means that the set-up is incomplete and this will affect what you hear through your speakers so perfect set-up is paramount to get the best out of the deck. Other than that, I have no regrets and the only upgrade left for me now is the Orbe platter but I am not in a hurry for that one.




Enjoy the music,

Lawrie.

 

Well Guys,

I guess I'm just going to have to save my pennies and when I'm there book myself a listen to a Gyro (and then try and get a 2nd hand one).

Goomer, The Ortofon wasn't really more detailed at the top end it was just harsher and long term more fatiguing. It was ok, but not as good overall I'd say. The Garrard option is tempting (i've always thought the 401 was a lovely looking bit of kit) but have to admit to worrying about rumble.

Re the Gyro bounce? Lawrie, you say its an art - is it really that tricky to get it right to begin with? Presumably there's a knack to it.

 

A bit of trial and error really. Too much bounce and it sounds a bit boomy and flaccid, too little and you get more surface noise IME. When you buy one (cos of course you will) you'll probably spend the first week worrying you haven't got it right and endlessly fiddling, after that it becomes really obvious when it's set as you like it. I like mine pretty bouncy, oo-er missus.

-- Ian

 

I've just noticed your location, you really should go and listen to a local deck! A local deck for local people. I've got one and I'm not even local...

Tony.

 

Definitive Audio are in Nottingham, and sell Notts Analogue decks, aswell a Kuzmas, SMEs and loads of other nice stuff.

I got my NA deck from there.

Chris

 

Ha. Most probably right, but I'm also a Hertfordshire lad as well and lived in Watford (not a million miles from the Michell empire) for 5 years, so my loyalties may be split

PS. Chris, When the time comes I'll check them out as well. Best to listen to as many as poss I guess - or maybe visit the Walrus next time I'm in the smoke.