System Synergy.

What is this synergy that people keep suggesting and is it real er.....whatever that means? If it is real then could synergy be predicted with more sucsess then trial and error style of experimentation?

 

Woolfie,

In medical terms thing Hand to eye co-ordiantion, if you where sunglasses inside, it screws it up, along the same lines.

 

or.......... more than the sum of the parts.

when you put two bits of kit together and they sound that much better than you would have expected.

 

A lot of the time it means products which favourably hide each others faults.

 

:rds2:

 

Sure, Synergy exists. If you remember the early 80's, there was the Linn/naim synergy - that lasted and was evangelized - right up to the moment when Linn bent naim over and synergized them in the rear end with their own range of amplifiers (LK1/LK280???).

In more sensible terms, "synergies" arise with linear and non-linear distortion - so if you have a broken speaker with a lifted HF response, you can tame that with a wadia CD player (which rolls off HF quite nicely).

Another example is the use of tube pre-amps with solid state poweramps and vice versa. In some instances this will add the right amount of 2nd harmonic distortion.. Use both tube pre/power and too much euphony is added.

I'd argue that synergies arise in badly designed components - where one is compsenating for a failing in one component by a complimentary failing in another component.

Sure it's predictable. Take a pair of Quad ESL's in a good room and well designed power amps (eg Crown) and a sony cd player. This is as good as it gets...

Then add a parametric equalizer and diddle around with it until you (or your test victims are happy). If they mention tubes at any time, take the appropriate guitar effects peddle, add that into the chain and dial in an varying amounts of 2nd harmonic until they are wetting themselves..

 

Hmm...... We have reach a consensus quicker then expected. In other word synergy is just a fanciful way to describe what happen when expensive toys that sound crap to everyone ears until by accident another crap toy makes it both sound ok again as long as they are used together.

Good. Another quandary solved. I could sit back again and listen to Mozart with my own crap system with unruffled mind.

 

Or did you simply reach the conclusion that you were looking for?

Synergy can equally be the removal of an undesirable trait from your system which otherwise detracts you from the quality and balance you have. This can be due to overcoming a weakness rather than merely compensating with the opposite effect.

How many crap expensive toys have you listened to as I rightly or wrongly read your post as being cynical with a hidden story behind it.

Paul

 

Good old Andy to rescue again You really do cheer me up when I think that cynicism has died thanks mate.
Still doing you bit for save the world from Stereophile sir. I salute' you. Maybe Woofie need to listen to some atc's might bring his 'crap system' up to just substandard?
So you have been conspicuous by your absence, just board?, lots of work, possibly found that the bit is a bit way off the mark?
fwiw, I do agree on the valve thing but a lot don't Wm.

 

The valve world largely has itself to blame for this, of course smart people know there's more to it than cosy 300Bs and numerous KT88/EL34 offerings...

Paul

 

Strange that Paul, I'd have never have guessed
Have tried one or two units myself .
However, I believe that a very good sound can be had from a quality transparent SS amp and Valve pre.
Sill not yet heard a valve amp do bass how I like, though the produce some very decent sounds. For others its a different matter. The only Valve amp I've had that came close the Manley 300 neo's superb. Wm

 

Bat ?

I'm looking at BAT valve pre's soon, especially the baby 3ivx. I want a little more magic in the mid, than I've heard from ss so far. However I still want rock solid bass and normal treble. Am I asking too much? BAT thoughts? Any other suggestions for pre's? Must be black, plain, have remote and be sub £3k. (Going in the gear under my profile btw).

I already have AVI, AR on my to dem list.

 

Not at all. Try ATC

 

ATC for speakers, or pre amps?

I've heard both extensively and thoroughly discounted them.

 

I was thinking about the amps. Works well here. It's a question of synergy :lol:

 

I have to say I really love the way my valve pre pesents the music through my active PMC's. I found it adds a definition to the treble. I would say smooth, but it is still crisp and detailed so I think definition / texture is a better way to describe it. It also seems to make vocals sound that bit more realistic again by the texture it seems to add and maybe by helping any unruly sibilance.

So I think synergy, when most of the equipment is extremely 'true' and revealing can be about adding something you like too the sound, not necessarily adding to undo something (bright pre to undo the soft speakers) or covering up a flaw.

I hope that makes sense I'm really tired? night night!

 

Well, it seemed prudent to put the facts on the table early on

Surprisingly, and perhaps within our lifetime, Stereophile might be coming to its senses. I almost bought this months copy as they reviewed another pair of Paradigm's. As you might know, I have the highest respect for the awesome (and sadly no longer in production) Paradigm active/20's - which kick a lot of vastly more expensive speakers well into the kitty litter.

John Atkinson may be as barking as the rest of them when writing his subjective reviews, but his measurements seem to suggest that he knows how to use (and interpret the results of) his audio precision gear

Been busy listening to music. Besides there hasn't been an argument lately to jump into the middle of which isn't a repetition of some previous argument.

 

Just read my post back which looked bloody patronising - sorry Tony, entirely unintentional and not aimed directly at you! I've no doubt you've heard a few alternatives and we all have our preferences.

With people dipping a toe into valve amps, in particular the likes of Consonance and Minga Da, they will likely have no idea of the breadth of the alternatives and the differences in performance. The components underneath are an entirely different way of seasoning of course.

Paul

 

Paul,

No worries mate, I possibly have been guilty of that now and then!!!. I believe that there are a few guys out there who are now trying the alternatives and finding that they are some rather cracking sounds to had from the thermionic side.

Andy,

"Well, it seemed prudent to put the facts on the table early on"

I would have expected nothing less that for you to put YOUR views on the table AKA "The world according to Garp"
Surprisingly enough quite a lot of listen to music as well