Tell me about Koetsu's

Many folk seem to be in awe of these little things - and aspire to owning one at some point in their hi-fi careers. With all the mystique surrounding them, are they really what they're cracked up to be?

When at shows, I've always enjoyed the Michell dems where they've been using a Rosewood - but I'd always be very wary about spending such a large amount of money on something which has so much hype surrounding it. But is it hype? Are they really that good?

They occasionally pop up on eBay - and more than once I've been seriously tempted; my current needle's going to need replacing within the next 9 months or so.

 

I wouldn't pay the money for one...
I would rather get a better TT, and get the best out of a cheaper cartridge!
Frinstance, I heard an Orbe with Clearaudio Insider Ref cart. against a Verdier with £300ish Dynavector 20XL. The Verdier easily walked it!
So IMO, spend the money on the best TT, then arm you can get, then think about getting the best (which is again arguable!) cartridge - as differences between TTs seem to be much greater than between carts...

 

Yup, very true - I realise that my TT/arm would be a bit out if its depth with a Koetsu, or any cartridge of that value. Ok, it'd still produce some decent noises but the hierarchy would be to cock. It's often crossed my mind as to whether these cartridges are really that good though - bit like the hype surrounding many other products in this world.

 

Hi,

Didn't have a Koetsu...but did have a Roksan Shiraz..which was really an EMT device. About £895 many,many,many yrs ago. It was very good. If I was into the big disks then I would spend quite a bit on the cartridge providing the arm and TT is up to it of course.

Regards

 

In a review for The Flat Response, Chris Frankland famously decreed that the Koetsu was actually worse at playing music than the giveaway Linn Basik cartridge. Think AT 95E if you don't remember the Basik.

One man's meat and all that.

 

Paul - that brings back memories! I was an avid reader of the Flat Response, it never failed to raise a smile! Think I even remember that test of the Koetsu Black getting panned.

Wish I'd kept those mags, had quite a collection in the end.

 

Yeah, but he was probably deaf; if the Basik's anything like a K5 or K9 he can microwave it thanks

The only time I've heard Koetsu's is on the back of Michell dems, funnily enough. Seem to be very musical, but slightly better at classical than rock.

 

Not deaf I think Dom, just locked into a certain way of listening. .

 

Aye - the possible performance gain doesn't justify the price tag!
Still, it comes in a lovely box...

BTW, I've still got an old K9 - not bad IMO and a bit better than my other emergency fall back of Goldring 1042...

 

The yellow Basik on an Ittok/LP12 was quite astonishingly good. I've no idea about the K5 or K9, but I doubt they're worse. Perhaps you need to get yourself a decent turntable?

Paul

 

Paul - I was always a fan of the little AT95/Basik. The green AT97 was possibly even a bit better with its finer stylus - slightly smoother but without any loss of the little one's joie de vivre.

I was never that impressed with the K5 though - always seemed to be the runt of the Linn litter. Otoh the K9 could certainly sound a bit special in an LP12 - tried it in my RB300/Gyro and it was bloody awful. Maybe synergy does exist after all!

 

I used the later k18 for a while, if you got a good one that was a nice cartridge. It also taught me in no uncertain terms that a brand new K18 wipes the floor with a tired old Karma . Also that Naim made a pretty neat MM input.

 

I never liked the look or feel of the K18, I'm sure it's a pretty sound hot-rodded AT though.

IIRC before Koetsu Sugano was associated with Supex, and the Supex SD900 was obviously very good and spawned the Asak/Karma/Troika. Certainly the Asak was closely related. Therefore it seems unlikely that the early Koetsu was crap. OTOH I'm not convinced about all the materials wankery that became the Koetsu trademark though.

I've only heard Koetsus in the context of truly appalling Absolute Sounds show demo systems. Oracle turntables, Krell or Audio Research amps and Magneplanar speakers. Could only attempt to play plinque and close miked acoustic guitar.

Paul

 

Very nice pictures. Lovely looking beasts.

-- Ian

 

I think as with most things in this world, they have some mystique owing to the crazy prices.

Also, the lovely looks.

Not because I am selling but the denon dl103 is absolutely superb for the cash, ( I have a dl304 which is slightly clearer, but the 103 is all I could want, indeed I would use as a reference for any cartridge, and bet it would make others totally redundant cost regardless) it is as good as a rohmann for around 1/10 the cost which is crazy. Its also easily as good as any of the cheap mc's for £250 and much more.

If I won the lottery, sure I would try a koetsu, a lyra a posh ortofon, and a clearaudio, however, I bet they would not be worth all the extra over the denon.

 

Worth is something very personal and depends also on many other factors.

If you really are interested in having superb sound quality and you won the lottery, therefore I would presume you have a super system, then I am sure you will go for the best or second or third best Clearaudio instead of the Denon because then you will find that the (slight?)difference in dynamic, clearness and details is worth that money.

 

Hi,

I used to own a Koetsu Black in the late 80s. It was one of type that Fox has spoken about. They weren't made by Sugano. I got it partly because it was a Koetsu, partly because I got a good deal on it & because it did sound very good in my turntable at the time. (Elite Rock II with Excalibaur arm).

Traditionally alot of moving coils are not the best of trackers. Ortofons are amongst the best but my Koetsu was quite was quite good.

I have heard a number of Koetsu cartridges over the years, in many systems sounding very enjoyable. The last one I heard was in the system used by Steve M in his Seventh Veil room at the recent hifi show.

I would like to try a better Koetsu and will do at some stage. As always you do need a good turntable arm combo do get the best out of them.

There is a lot of mystique around Koetsu cartridges but like Fox as said there is a foundation of truth. One downside is the UK price of the devices. They can be bought for less than 1/2 price abroad.

As for whether it is worth it. If you enjoy the experience of using one then it is worth it. How much you get out of a Koetsu does (as with all cartridges) depend on the turntable, arm & rest of the system.

SCIDB