That 'NO' Vote

Are celebrations in order now that the French have voted NO to the Euro constitution?

Could this be the begininning of the end of a United Europe?
It's got to be the first time the french have done anything worth praising them for.

And with the Dutch to vote later this week another No would be most welcome.

What are your views on this historic event?

 

I'm a great fan of the idea of an integrated Europe - even more so of an integrated world (Star Trek fan n'all!)...
However, I'm not completely convinced that the EC exists for the good of it's citizens.. Still, I'm not convinced that many governments are there for the good of their citizens either, more for keeping themselves and their mates sorted [/cynical mode off]

 

At last! A fellow ZGer with similar views to mine.

Yes I agree, but perhaps it's something we as the voters can work on.

Sad really, but I feel that they are merely a reflection of society.

 

I'm a great subscriber to the old Anarchist adage of "whoever you vote for the government gets in"...
I don't necessarily mean the politicians, but the permanent staff, as in "Yes Minister", all with their own vested interests.
I'm not sure which politician would have the guts to shake up the faceless beurocrats! And besides, anyone who's so convinced of their own right-ness that they want to be a politician is obviously un-suited to office...
So whoever you get, a bunch of Establishment "Suits" will run the Country/EC (that's probably why I have a hatred of the suit!)

 

My views on your post is that I beg to differ on all three points. And I do not think it's much of a historic event. Luckily History with a capital H is made of bigger events than that. Sad day all the same. Cheers

 

I would bet that our 'new' PM is celebrating!! Just means that he won't need a referendum here...the dirty work is already done..

 

Any attempt at Euro-centralised government is doomed - thank goodness.

As for our own referendum, I believe that we need a debate and a vote in the UK and there will be quite a few pissed-off people if we don't get one.

And of course it was a historic day, else what is history? Sad? Definitely not. Perhaps there is now an opportunity for the people of Europe to decide what kind of EU they want.

Finally, when it comes to politicians having their snouts in the trough, the fact that the auditors have refused to put their signatures to EU accounts for 7 years now, says it all.

 

Steve, just as an aside, you never cease to amaze me with all your references to articles on the web about political issues!
particular interest of yours? very well informed.

yes I like the idea of all working together, too, but its clearly in practice pretty unworkable and unwieldy, just look at star wars to see what happens if the council gets too big, they all just talk forever without any action.

I dont' particularly like the idea of cherry picking the best bits either, and on some issues saying shove it, it should really be all together, or all separate and running themselves.

The continentals actually want us to be a part of it all, to be in, and for it to work. I find that encouraging.

But again its just one big expensive thing with too many vested interests, I don't really think its workable. I coudln't really care much about the pound, and I would love tax harmonisation, but I don't like driving on the right in km/hour!! and fruit/veg in kg.

The media, as usual are dismally failing us...their role is to inform and I don't know a bleedin thing about what its all about, I havne't the time to trawl the web and research what its about, its the medias job to tell me and everyone. Its a fix, they purposely dumb down and limit what they tell you. God help people who aren't that clever, how on earth are they meant to come to an informed judgement?

 

They read what "The Sun Says" of course.

Actually it was interesting how you had the left of France voting non because they fear the open market and the right of France voting non as they fear the muslims of Turkey invading. A strange alliance indeed.

The Brits on the other hand, would/will vote no mainly based on a dislike of being dicated to by Brussels bureaucrats.

If we do have a referrendum it would seem great opportunity to ask the electorate some other questions at the same time:

1. Would you like to see the £ replaced by the Euro?
2. Would you like the UK to withdrawal from the EU altogether?
3. Do you agree with the ban on fox hunting?
4. Do you agree with Clause 28 being repealed?
5. Should there be an annual limit on immigration to the UK?
6. Should the UK become a republic?

And so on - and all drafted by MORI in an unbiased way.

There would then be no doubt amongst politicians as to what the wishes are of the people they are employed by.

Of course, it won't happen as they fear what the answers might be.

Matt.

 

For number 6 - No. But England should.

 

Good idea!
But what about Wales and Scotland? Does that mean they're stuck with Charles and Philip respectively? Poor buggers.
Obviously the Queen will go to America, as they love royalty there (only cos they haven't got any history of their own )

 

Mark, without wanting to turn this place into a nanny state, ZG has always been a multi-nationally inclusive site.

Im sure you were only kidding, but it might not appear that way to our international visitors.

All the best

Chris

 

I doubt it was kidding

 

I doubt it too. To me this type of statement is sadly reminiscent of tabloïd title pages. You just have to live with it.

 

So just out of interest, does anyone share the idea of the French, rather than Anglo-Saxon, vision of the EU?
I.e should it's goal be protection of the individual citizen, or the removal of all "barriers to trade" so that the individual will benefit by the subsequent increase in entrepreneurial profits?

 

Don't know about all that bollox Leonard, but I do seriously like (or should that be dream about?) the idea of an integrated world, without boundaries.

I suppose I really must stop taking these pills.

 

dev, it'd be great but there's this small problem.... people. we need something cataclysmic to happen before the general populism gest altruism in a big way. have a read of watchmen....

cheers


julian.

 

Dev, i agree that it is a great idea.
Unfortunatly i dont think human nature will allow it to happen, i do believe we are tribal by nature and need small comunities to behave in.

 

I believe it'll happen one day or we'll wipe each other out. The first one certainly not in my lifetime and the second hopefully never.

 

I hope your right Dev, unfortuantly my scinical side doubts it.