The F1 season 2004

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by Markus S, Feb 29, 2004.

  1. Markus S

    Paul Ranson

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    As soon as you have an ECU you have the possibility for traction control. It's probably better overt than covert.

    Paul
     
    Paul Ranson, Mar 3, 2004
    #21
  2. Markus S

    michaelab desafinado

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    If the FIA do re-instate the ban on TC they will do it by mandating a standard, FIA supplied, tamperproof ECU.

    That will really screw up the engine manufacturers who have maximised power by making "undriveable" engines that can only be tamed with their special ECUs. It will undoubtedly cost a lot of money in the short term, the opposite of what the the FIA are trying (not very successfully) to do.

    It all adds up to why Paul Stoddart has a rather large bargaining chip which he has conveniently pushed out onto the table just a week before the start of the season. It may not make him any friends in the paddock but it will probably get him what he wants (an affordable engine supply).

    Michael.
     
    michaelab, Mar 3, 2004
    #22
  3. Markus S

    Ian Wright

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    Hi Michael,

    "If the FIA do re-instate the ban on TC they will do it by mandating a standard, FIA supplied, tamperproof ECU."

    Sounds like a bit like F3000?

    "That will really screw up the engine manufacturers who have maximised power by making "undriveable" engines that can only be tamed with their special ECUs. It will undoubtedly cost a lot of money in the short term, the opposite of what the the FIA are trying (not very successfully) to do."

    It is of course quite a bit more complicated than that but that is a good summary.

    Golden Rule:

    Whenever rules change it always costs money. Even when designed to cost less!

    Ian
     
    Ian Wright, Mar 3, 2004
    #23
  4. Markus S

    Paul Ranson

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    I think the one engine per weekend rule will probably save money.

    We had the opportunity to use some ex-BAR titanium suspension fasteners, these were used for qualifying and then replaced with standard steel jobs for the race. The change to 'Parc Ferme' last year will have reduced this cost at least...

    Paul
     
    Paul Ranson, Mar 4, 2004
    #24
  5. Markus S

    michaelab desafinado

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    Maybe. Not necessarily though. The big teams have a habit of finding costly solutions to pervert the intentions of FIA restrictions. I suspect they are all hard at work (and hence spending money) on getting the same power for increased reliability instead of just droping the rev limiter a touch which would give them the reliability but at the cost of a little power.

    There has also been speculation that the big boys would still develop some banzai engines made to barely last a race distance which they would use in the event they had to replace the engine anyway. If they're going to have the 10 grid places penalty they might aswell have a mega engine in there for the race ;)

    Michael.
     
    michaelab, Mar 4, 2004
    #25
  6. Markus S

    Ian Wright

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    Hi Paul,

    "I think the one engine per weekend rule will probably save money."

    It has cost a lot more money so far and will continue to do so. The cost is more in the research than in building fewer engines each year. If they spend less money on building engines, more money goes into the research.

    Michael is spot on.

    Ian
     
    Ian Wright, Mar 4, 2004
    #26
  7. Markus S

    Paul Ranson

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    If you're not doing routine engine changes three times a weekend for at least two cars then you don't need so many staff, you don't need to carry so many engines etc etc.

    The engine manufacturers create new engines each year, this year they just had to change their compromise slightly...

    There's something a bit sad about F1 expenditure, it just seems really inefficient, like Cold War military spending.

    Paul
     
    Paul Ranson, Mar 4, 2004
    #27
  8. Markus S

    Ian Wright

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    Hi Paul,

    "There's something a bit sad about F1 expenditure, it just seems really inefficient, like Cold War military spending."

    Costs are almost secondary for most teams. Just like the military in the cold war as you have suggested!

    Things are improving and we are very careful with our budget. However, engine suppliers often have very big budgets, and like to use them!

    In general any rule change costs money and ultimately penalises the smaller teams. Far better to have stability and all teams reach the performance asymptote and hopefully have closer racing.

    Ian
     
    Ian Wright, Mar 4, 2004
    #28
  9. Markus S

    Ian Wright

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    4th and 7th in qualifying.

    This is the best combined qualifying (on Saturday) that BAR has ever achieved.

    Looking forwards to the race.

    Ian
     
    Ian Wright, Mar 6, 2004
    #29
  10. Markus S

    michaelab desafinado

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    Congratulations! Button was certainly looking incredible and getting the same time as 3rd place Montoya is awesome.

    Best of luck for the race. I've got BAR/Honda engines in my fantasy formula one team :)

    Michael.
     
    michaelab, Mar 6, 2004
    #30
  11. Markus S

    julian2002 Muper Soderator

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    i want those 2 hours of my life baaaaaaack. god that was boring. no 1st corner pileup, a bit of smoke is all and the most boringly predictable 1-2 finish lineup in the history of f1. even if riekonnen's car hadn;t gone tits up i doubt he'd have got that close.
    on the strength of this first race i'm not really looking forward to mayasia but i'll watch it but if it's a carbon copy of this one then i'll be watching whatever dire 1940's black and white kak the beeb decide to put on instead or i'll just listen to some music.
    cheers


    julian
     
    julian2002, Mar 7, 2004
    #31
  12. Markus S

    wolfgang

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    What do you expect?

    That is F1 98% of the time.

    If I have time I watch the first 30 seconds of the start then turn off the TV. Check later to see who won,..... actually more like to see if Micheal didn't.

    Next day read the newspaper write up. Those sport journalists seem to explain very well why the race was suppose to be so exciting.




    Sorry if I have offend anyone in advance. I enjoy following the F1 story but never feel the need to watch every minute of the race.
     
    wolfgang, Mar 7, 2004
    #32
  13. Markus S

    Rodrigo de Sá This club's crushing bore

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    Yep, the race was boring. There were two interesting moves, though: an overtaking by Fisichella (he overtook Heidfeld on the outside: very brave and extremely well driven) and the overtaking of Button by Montoya.

    Apart from that, Rubens was matching Schiumacher's speed, but he had brake problems.

    But, as a matter of fact, as Wolf correctly pointed out, most F1 races are boring. As a matter of fact, most racing is boring unless you sit behind the wheel (and even so, if you are not truly motivated they become a nightmare). It only happens that, sometimes, one comes accross an interesting race, and one is forever trying to find another insteresting one. As one is rewarded from time to time, one becomes addicted - it usually is boring, but you always expect it to be like the really interesting races you remember (which you take as what a motor race should be).

    Nevertheless, the race was instructive. Barrichello is becoming really fast and Alonso is really good: he never put a foot wrong.

    Montoya was, as usual, too impetuous, Ralf looked timid.

    Mercedes disaster, of course, compounded by silly strategies.

    If the championship is going to be this way it will be terribly boring, but let's hope tire wars may change things.

    Anyway, thumbs up to Schumacher (I mean Michael): he is truly the modern day Fangio.

    P.S.: Have you noticed that the nose of the BMWs looks like the result of a breeding experiment between a walrus and a hypo? Small wonder they are so slow;)
     
    Rodrigo de Sá, Mar 7, 2004
    #33
  14. Markus S

    julian2002 Muper Soderator

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    rds,
    you're right most f1 races on their own are boring with a few exciting bits thrown in. however the consoling factor in the past has been a reasonably level playing field amongst the top 2 or 3 teams. at present ferrari is so far ahead of the competition that it really makes 1st place (for driver and manufacturer) a foregone conclusion and who gets worked up about comming second?
    don;t get me wrong, schumacher and ferrari have worked hard and are reaping the benefits of some inspired team building and a lot of hard work and long term planning, i certainly applaud their achievements however it's nowhere near as exciting as when ferarri were the team who's engine was wonderful but had the tendancy to do a grenade impression at 17k rpm.
    also there is no foil to shumachers brilliance, montoya was touted as such when he started but is too impulsive (and now has to steer in both directions rather than just the one), the only hope really at the moment is raikonen and the guy who came 3rd (forget his name) and raikonens car broke and the guy who came third... well, came third...
    cheers

    julian
     
    julian2002, Mar 7, 2004
    #34
  15. Markus S

    Rodrigo de Sá This club's crushing bore

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    It was Alonso. I know Häkkinen doesn't think much of him - but I honestely think he is protecting Raikkonen's ego.

    As a matter of fact, and unless he fails in the development area (as it seems he is a bit lazy in that sector) I foresee a great future for him. He has driven consistently well - I don't mean well as Raikkönen does, but, - inspiringly well. He seems to have all that adrenalin that makes him stay focused for the entire duration of the race. For me, he was the star of last year.

    Let's hope he improves. But, of course, if this trend goes on, Ferrari will be uncatchable, and Schumacher will get his seventh crown.

    Only a few years ago I remember people saying that the Fangio record was unbeatable because formula 1 was too different then.

    I honestly think this record has stood for so long just because Fangio was that good: he raced in seven full seasons and won 5 times; he started in 51 races an won 24 times (and if you discount the '58 races, because they were only ephemeral appearances) he drove 49 and won 24 - half of them). His pole and fastest lap ratios are yet unbeaten.

    So we are witnessing history being written - Schumacher is doing it and we are the witnesses. But of course, I'd like to see Schumacher in a less dominant car.

    By the way, I don't really like him much - the Villeneuve affair - but he *is* unbeleivably quick and consistent.

    Perhaps one can make up one's mind by looking at this place . Click on the Sepang (Malasian) Grand Prix. I honestly cannot understand how he manages to control that beast of a car and, in spite of a missed trajectory, get the pole!

    One just has to admire such achievment!

    Having said that, Julian, of course you are right. We may be in for a very boring season.
    :(
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 8, 2004
    Rodrigo de Sá, Mar 7, 2004
    #35
  16. Markus S

    angi73

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    Hold your horses on the "ferrari domination" guys. It's only the first race! The bridgestones worked well in the relatively cold track temperatures compared to the Michelins. The ferrari car is more of an evolution, whereas williams and Mclaren both have radical new cars that are lacking the proven race performance of the Ferarri. That Mclaren looks a bit dodgy though, the Engine is well known to be weak, as Raikonen proved. Car development swings in roundabouts throughout the season.

    It was not surprising, if a little sickening to se a Ferrari one two. You can't fault Michael, but i don't enjoy seeing him win, partly due to his unsporting tactics in the past. I feel that there is still a lot of hope yet for this season. we'll have to wait and see what happens in Malaysia.

    As for the williams being slow, i wouldn't say that, we'll see:D
     
    angi73, Mar 7, 2004
    #36
  17. Markus S

    Lt Cdr Data om

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    I have to say I think f1 has to be the most environmentally unfriendly sport in existance, it ought to be banned, all that petrol going up in smoke, all that rubber, the parts on the cars, paint, flying the team and cars everywhere.
    and they have the cheek to tell us to drive less...hummm
     
    Lt Cdr Data, Mar 8, 2004
    #37
  18. Markus S

    julian2002 Muper Soderator

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    no, bull fighting is the most environmentally unfriendly sport, all that methane you see, much worse than a few cars going round a track in procession. or perhaps football, all that hairspray and support for 3rd world designer label sweatshops. or perhaps any sport involving electricity at all anywhere.....
    cheers


    julian
     
    julian2002, Mar 9, 2004
    #38
  19. Markus S

    Markus S Trade

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    The German newspapers today are all aflitter with the news that Ralf S will sign with Renault soon. A - usually well-informed - journalist (and ex-driver) said last night on German TV that he thought it was just a manoeuvre in his negotiations with Williams, though.

    Anybody got some inside dirt?

    I'm a bit embarassed to admit I didn't see the race. I was off for a few days over the week-end. My partner got up to watch it live at 4 in the morning, but I was too tired. After the race, she told me the result, and I can't say I was surprised. I could have watched a repeat later, but somehow taking a walk by the sea was more attractive than watching a repeat of the race.

    I'm not convinced that the Michelin camp will do that much better in Sepang than it did in Melbourne. Yes, Michelin has beaten Bridgestone in hot weather last season, but nobody expected them to be this good in Melbourne, so why shouldn't they repeat the trick in Malaysia?

    Apparently, Ferrari did a lot of tire testing this winter. Bridgestone is said to have split the test programme: keeping the carcass constant and changing the compound on on occasion, and reversing it on another. Only when the results of the work on carcass and compound were brought together late in the testing programme did the enormous advances become apparent.

    And seeing as the hot weather disadvantage has been known for a long time, I would be surprised if eliminating that disadvantage was not a main priority.
     
    Markus S, Mar 9, 2004
    #39
  20. Markus S

    Paul Ranson

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    Paul Ranson, Mar 9, 2004
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