The F1 season 2004

Personally I think it's a bad move by JB. He was doing well at BAR. Also, I think he is risking his reputation and might start being seen as a "Me" man. After Williams comments about him during his time with them and now ditching the team hes done so well with I think people might start having second thoughts about making him offers next time his contract comes up for renewal and Williams don't want him.

Then again maybe loyalty doesn't mean anything in F1.


GTM

 

It is said Button's "management" offered his services to Williams. Wasn't Button managed by his father?

 

Button is managed by sports management company, the name of which escapes me at the moment. Judging by some of the statements made in the Williams press conference the other day, it looks like Williams may have had an option of Button's services which would become active if BAR did not take up their option. Appears as though there may be some dispute as to whether this option was properly exercised by BAR.

Whatever the contractural situation, this does appear a gutsy move by Button, moving from what appeared to be number 1 status with BAR to equal status with Webber at Williams. I'll be watching the competition between the two Williams drivers with interest next year!

The other interesting aspect to this is why does Button think his WC chances will be better with Williams? Honda appears to be back in form with their engines and the BAR chassis appears to have come on very well this season. Is he betting that their good form this year is really a reflection of Williams and MacLaren stuffing up their 2004 designs, or does he believe that BAR are moving in the wrong direction for 2005? Perhaps there is something else going on at Brackley that he does not like?

Whilst the racing this year has largely been pretty dull (at least at the front of the field) its been one of the best silly seasons for a long time. This move has simply been the icing on a very tasty silly season cake!

 

I too think it's a bold move by Button. Time will tell if it was the right move though. He went from an undisputed No.1 position with a relatively weak team mate in a team that seems to be on the up to an equal position with one of the most highly regarded drivers in the paddock, in a team that has made a bit of a mess of this season.

Regardless of how the Williams is next year, if he gets creamed by Webber he'll be history, but if he matches or does better than Webber his reputation will go through the roof. It's an unusually bold move for an F1 driver to move to such a challenging position but he must have a hell of a lot self belief in his abilities.

On the team side, Williams are one of THE teams in F1. So they had a bad year but they'll be back next year. Just look how quickly and how successfully McLaren have bounced back from a much more desperate situation. Williams and BMW seem to be in it for the long haul and they don't have the problem of tobacco sponsorship. BAR look to be in a much more precarious situation regarding funding as they're owned by a tobacco company (BAT)!. The BAT money is going to dry up soon so unless Honda make a huge investment their future suddenly doesn't look quite so rosy.

Also, think about this: for the last 20 years the championships have been won by one of Ferrari, McLaren or Williams except for 94 & 95 when Schumacher won for Benneton. If I had to put money on whether Williams or BAR would be the next team (apart from Ferrari) to win the WDC it would be Williams every time.

Michael.

 

Realistically BAR are unlikely to be in a title winning position in the next two or three years. The commercial stuff between Honda/BAT/DR/etc aren't settled for the long term, I think there's a plan to build a new wind tunnel, again that will not be relevant until at least two years in the future (they'd have to go from grass to tunnel in a year to have even minor input into the 06 car, and you'd have to be thinking 07 for significant benefits.

Anyway it's an obvious move for a driver with pretensions to the world championship, if he thinks he cannot handle Webber then he might as well retire now. Webber is so far still 'very promising', Button is now a 'proven' front runner.

Paul

 

Well, following an excellent article on Atlas F1 (requires subscription) by Biranit Goren entitled "Atlas F1 Analysis: Richards Doth Protest Too Much" things are becoming a LOT clearer and it seems that Richards really only has himself to blame for Button leaving. His blustering about shock, betrayal, honesty, loyalty etc. etc. in the media is just so much hot air and largely a PR excerise to prevent him looking stupid.

In fact, Richards has known for some time that Button was looking for a way out of BAR and returning to Williams. Button's relationship with the BAR management has been sour for some time due the non-payment of performance bonuses based on championship points. It's apparently been simmering already since last year.

Button and his management already made earlier attempts to move to Williams for 2005 but at the time the contractual situation was such that it wasn't possible. Then, when Button's management spotted the loophole in the contract/option (almost certainly connected with Honda's commitment to the team) they went straight to Williams and he didn't hesitate to sign Button once he and his legal people were happy it would stick.

Of course, this all doesn't look so good for Richards so he's trying his best to make Button look like the bad guy with all his posturing and blustering in the media.

His latest stunt was to issue a press release implying that the CRB (contracts recognition board) had ruled that Button's contract with BAR was the only valid one for 2005. In fact all the CRB did was acknowledge that they are in receipt of a contract between BAR and Button. Williams had to quickly issue a countering press release clearing that up and you could see them barely containing their anger at the way that Richards is fighting this battle in the media and trying to spin it his way at every turn: "In closing their statement, Williams criticised BAR's handling of the media and stated that "The BMW WilliamsF1 Team has a commitment to correctly represent the outcome of this process to the media as and when a conclusion is reached."

Michael.

 

Hi all,

After various problems trying to get back onto ZG I have the odd comment re the BUT saga!

BAR gave Villeneuve 5 years to deliver and Villeneuve gave BAR 5 years to deliver. When Jenson came along and out performed Villeneuve then it was clear that Villeneuve had lost his focus and wasn't right for the team. So his contract wasn't renewed.

Jenson is third in the championship with BAR, the Williams drivers (RSC and MOY) are both faster than Jenson and are way behind him. We have designed and built the second fastest car this year and have plans to continue improving.

Williams sacked Jenson in 2000.

Williams are very poor at driver management, e.g. MOY, RSC, Damon Hill, Nigel Mansell etc.

Williams have some very major internal managerial problems with a very demotivated workforce. BAR is still very motivated to win in F1 and is working very well as a team.

Jenson was in a very strong position to follow Schumacher in building a team around him. We were very focused on helping in improve with us as a team and become a dominant force in F1.

So to say Williams is the team to help him win the championship and BAR isn't is a bit strange!

A lot of the press is sheer spin.

Ultimately this will be decided by the Contracts Recognition Board and some sensible negotiation afterwards.

But BAR, Williams, Jenson and F1 are all losers here. It should never have got to this.

Ian

 

IIRC JPM/Williams were contenders for the championship last year and when BUT/RSC were team-mates RSC didn't exactly rule.

But the main point is that BUT will be viewed very differently from now on. Ruthless in pursuit of his goal. DR seems to be handling things very poorly.

Anyway it's cheered the whole thing up somewhat. Although obviously I support my 'local' team...

Paul

 

"IIRC JPM/Williams were contenders for the championship last year"
And so was RAI in the previous years but heavily upgraded car. This was mainly due to Michelin tyres being much better than BS tyres. And Ferrari did not make a stunning car that year!

"and when BUT/RSC were team-mates RSC didn't exactly rule."
Early on BUT was a bit ahead of RSC. When they allowed (bit of a loose term as some teams were using it and not getting in trouble for it) traction control RSC moved ahead of BUT.

"But the main point is that BUT will be viewed very differently from now on."

No doubt about that!

Ian

 

Thanks for the input Ian and sorry about all the login issues, at least you managed to register a new user.

I agree with a lot of what you say but I still can't help believing that Williams will be in at least as good a position as BAR next year. They've had driver management issues for sure but IMO Webber and Jenson are very much drivers that fit well with Williams whereas I don't think RSC and MOY were, especially not RSC.

As an outsider one has to wonder though, if BAR are in such excellent shape to be championship contenders in 2005 why the hell did Jenson want to leave? I very much doubt that FW will be paying him megabucks (it would be a first) so there must have been other reasons. I think it's a bit harsh to say that Williams sacked Jenson in 2000. FW had his hands tied because he'd already done the deal with MOY ages ago before he realised that Jenson was actually pretty good and might want to keep him. I think they've always had an amicable relationship.

Time will tell if BUT made the right move. I can imagine how devastating it must be for BAR and I hope you get a good replacement for Jenson.....like Hakinnen

Michael.

 

Hi Michael,

"As an outsider one has to wonder though, if BAR are in such excellent shape to be championship contenders in 2005 why the hell did Jenson want to
leave?"

As an insider who knows a lot about B.A.R (yes we are in excellent shape for 2005 +) and quite a bit about Williams I am confident that his decision has nothing to do with the ability to win a championship in the next year or so, despite what the press and BUT are saying. We have a highly motivated and very capable workforce at B.A.R. With less budget and resource than Williams (see a bit more detail below) we are beating them comfortably this year. We have outscored them in the last 8 races....

Williams have appointed a 33 year old to act as technical director. Does that strike anyone as odd? That tells me that P. Head needed to move on but they didn't have the right person to replace him. So they chose someone who was a yes man. How can a 33 year old have the experience (both managerially and technically) to manage a technical team of 150 + engineers? It won't get into the public domain but I would bet a lot of the engineering team aren't too impressed with the decision and with him!

"I very much doubt that FW will be paying him megabucks (it would be a first) so there must have been other reasons."

I agree and they are not being discussed by anybody in public.

Ian

 

Congrats to Ferrari for clinching both the constructors' and the driver's title 5 races from the end of the season.

Commiserations to BAR; 3/4 translated into 5/6, not bad, but certainly not up to hope and expectations. Does anybody know why the Renaults are so great at getting off the line? Probably to do with the center of gravity, I'd say.

McLaren are back on form. Unfortunately, it's the form of the first half of the season. In Hungary, they were behind Sauber again. Dismal.

Jacques Villeneuve shamelessly plugs himself for another shot at a BAR cockpit. I do hope he won't get it; there must be better drivers available than he.

A boring race. There should be a law against circuits where overtaking is impossible.

 

Steady on Markus - MSC hasn't won the drivers title yet . If he wins in Spa (next race) then he will have done it.

Renault's traction off the line is astounding. I don't think it's C of G. They're putting into practise what they learned when launch control was legal - when theirs was the class of the field. Their traction control (closely related) is also easily the best - the way they could power out of the hairpin at Hockenheim 3 weeks ago was incredible.

About "Launch control" not being legal it seems to me that everyone's using something because at the start of races no-one spins a wheel! Before it was invented you could barely see the start for all the tyre smoke, and now everyone gets cleanly away even though launch control is banned and traction control musn't kick in before 100km/h :rds2: . Whatever "system" various teams are using, Renault's is by far the best.

As for Villeneuve back to BAR....I agree with you Markus, there must be better. Mind you, I don't think Coulthard is in that group, he should just retire. Of all the names being bandied about I think a return for Hakkinen would be best

Hungary was unbelievably boring. The sooner they get rid of that circuit (or totally redesign it) the better.

Michael.

 

Yeah, but only Barrichello could theoretically take it away from him, and I believe he drives one of those cute red cars, too.

 

OK, but Michael could still die or become unable to drive through injury (I hope neither happens) which would see Barichello with the title. It's a remote chance I know and to all intents and purposes Michael already had the championship wrapped up a few races ago but it's not over until it's over.

Michael.

 

Hey Mike, I said congrats to Ferrari for the drivers' title - nobody but one of their drivers can win it even if both were to be fatally hit by an oncoming Ape tomorrow.

 

OK, you win (I missed that detail in your original post :shame: ).

Michael.

 

As a life long Ferrari fan, what can I say but "where's that effing smilie for the champagne?"

 

Hi Michael,

"Renault's traction off the line is astounding. I don't think it's C of G. They're putting into practise what they learned when launch control was legal - when theirs was the class of the field. Their traction control (closely related) is also easily the best - the way they could power out of the hairpin at Hockenheim 3 weeks ago was incredible."

It is in part C of G but that is not the main reason. Not surprisingly we are trying to resolve why we are unable to match their starts! We do understand how they do it but aren't able to do it ourselves yet.

Incdientally they used a wide range of techniques to get the best start. So when the FIA asked them to remove various parts of their system they have still ended up with the best starts!

"About "Launch control" not being legal it seems to me that everyone's using something because at the start of races no-one spins a wheel! Before it was invented you could barely see the start for all the tyre smoke, and now everyone gets cleanly away even though launch control is banned and traction control musn't kick in before 100km/h . Whatever "system" various teams are using, Renault's is by far the best."

We do spin our wheeels but not in a completely uncontrolled manner (see Renault at Imola for their only poor starts this year). The rule changes removed various techniques that you could use to control wheel spin. But they left in certain things you can do to help a driver reduce the wheelspin.

"As for Villeneuve back to BAR....I agree with you Markus, there must be better. Mind you, I don't think Coulthard is in that group, he should just retire. Of all the names being bandied about I think a return for Hakkinen would be best "

I agree that Hakkinen, if focused on winning, would be the best bet.

"Hungary was unbelievably boring. The sooner they get rid of that circuit (or totally redesign it) the better."

Remove it from the calendar would be best! Moving to much harder tyres might make overtaking possible there but I wouldn't like to guarantee that.

Ian

 

Hi Markus,

"Congrats to Ferrari for clinching both the constructors' and the driver's title 5 races from the end of the season."

Well as it is our job to beat them I am not happy with them winning! But they have done an incredible job this year. Last year they were lapped at Hungary. This year they could have laped everybody!

"Commiserations to BAR; 3/4 translated into 5/6, not bad, but certainly not up to hope and expectations. Does anybody know why the Renaults are so great at getting off the line? Probably to do with the center of gravity, I'd say."

It all went wrong for us through the start and turns 1 and 2 where ALO and MOY got past us. Frustrating but we did get 2 cars to finish. Closed up by 1 point on Renault for 2nd, maintained the gap to Williams in 4th and gained 7 points on McLaren in 5th.

"McLaren are back on form. Unfortunately, it's the form of the first half of the season. In Hungary, they were behind Sauber again. Dismal."

Coulthard trundling around behind FIS can't have done a lot for his driving next year can it!

"A boring race. There should be a law against circuits where overtaking is impossible."

Absolutely.

Ian