The F1 season 2006

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by Markus S, Mar 15, 2006.

  1. Markus S

    Markus S Trade

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    In the absence of ZG's near-traditional F1 thread, let me start one and state that I enjoyed Sunday's race a lot. Good racing, a lot of tension until the very end, a magnificent start into his F1 career for Rosberg, an unbelievable season start for Toyota all added up to a race that I was happy to spend hafl a Sunday afternoon on.

    I didn't get to see the qualifying but I'm told that was better to watch than the last few seasons, too.

    Now all we need is an agreement between Mr Ecclestone and the manufacturers and F1 could see a return to the days when watching the race was much more exciting that following the politics. I'm looking forward to it.
     
    Markus S, Mar 15, 2006
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  2. Markus S

    michaelab desafinado

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    Pretty much agree with all your points Markus. I watched quali and it was very much better to watch than the last few season's single lap bore.

    Fantastic race and looks like being a cracking season. Even though I'm a bit of a BMW fan I rather enjoyed seeing JV's BMW lunching it's engine in front of Frank Williams whilst the Williams's with the 'crap' Cosworth engine both scored points. Nico Rosberg was outstanding - IMO probably the most exciting start to an F1 career since Schumacher's, possibly even better. A HUGE talent for the future.

    PS: I usually watch the German RTL coverage (on cable) as it's way better than what Portuguese TV provides and keeps my German up to scratch :)

    Michael.
     
    michaelab, Mar 15, 2006
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  3. Markus S

    narabdela

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    Good race. Just a pity that it had to be won in the pits again, rather than on the track.
     
    narabdela, Mar 15, 2006
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  4. Markus S

    Lord .

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    The Renault pitcrew drew the two leaders level, Alonso won the race in the three corners after his last pitstop!

    It was an excellent Grand Prix all round, I may watch a few more this year than I did last.
     
    Lord, Mar 15, 2006
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  5. Markus S

    michaelab desafinado

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    It's pretty certain that had Schumacher not been denied his extra lap of qualifying fuel 'top-up' (see below) he would have had just enough margin to stay ahead of Alonso. That's not just Ferrari wishful thinking, even Renault's Pat Symonds agrees with that asessment.

    The new rules say that drivers in the final 20 minute qualifying shootout get a 1 lap fuel credit for each lap they complete. However, to prevent drivers just crawling around after their fast lap to save fuel and still get the credit you only get a credit for laps within 110% of your own best time. Schumacher had one of his laps outside the 110% limit because he was held up by a backmarker so wasn't given that lap as a credit and thus ended up starting the race with 1 lap of fuel less than he was hoping for. That probably cost him the race.

    Michael.
     
    michaelab, Mar 16, 2006
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  6. Markus S

    Ian Wright

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    Did anyone spot the rule change that would hinder Ferrari in 2005. That was the reversed in 2006 to help Ferrai to be competitive again?

    With the budget that Ferrari used to have rules changes were never a hindrance as they generally made the best of them so continued to win. But 2005 was outside of their control.

    An exciting qualifying although the last session has a lot of wasted time. It will gaurantee some very different strategies!

    An exciting race. Jenson overtaking Montoya on two occasions. With quite a few other overtaking manoeuvres.

    Ian
     
    Ian Wright, Mar 16, 2006
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  7. Markus S

    Markus S Trade

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    You're talking about tyre changes, I presume. Firstly, as a spectator, I have to say I like it because it gives us something to watch, and to snigger when it goes wrong.

    Secondly, I don't think it was purely about Ferrari. It seems likely that Michelin will bow out and Bridgestone will remain as sole supplier. Making the possible future sole supplier look bad in the last season with competition is not helpful, I suppose; for years to come, everyone would have talked about tyres in F1 only by mentioning that the sole supplier was a good bit behind in the last season with tyre competition.

    Also, I would think that without the rule change, less teams would have made the jump from Michelin to Bridgestone; then, after Michelin leaves, everybody would have complained about Ferrari having an unfair advantage because they would have been the only top team with any Bridgestone experience.
     
    Markus S, Mar 16, 2006
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  8. Markus S

    michaelab desafinado

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    Oh come on Ian - that's not really fair (or true). I assume you're referring to not allowing tyre changes during a race (2005) and re-allowing them this year.

    Sure, the "no tyre changes" rule hurt Bridgestone (and therefore Ferrari) badly but that wasn't the reason it was introduced. Similarly, allowing back tyre changes wasn't done to help Ferrari but it's a welcome (IMO) side effect.

    No tyre changes led to rather boring races as drivers slowed down to preserve their tyres.

    I personally can't wait to get back to a single tyre supplier next year. I don't really like championships being decided by tyres and, as you well know, tyres can have more effect on laptime than all other aspects (engine, chassis, aero, driver) put together.

    Michael.
     
    michaelab, Mar 16, 2006
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  9. Markus S

    Ian Wright

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    Hi Michael,

    "Oh come on Ian - that's not really fair (or true). I assume you're referring to not allowing tyre changes during a race (2005) and re-allowing them this year."

    I was being slightly provocative but most people in the pitlane knew this would happen. It was the only realistic change that would knock Ferrari off the top and encourage closer racing.

    "Sure, the "no tyre changes" rule hurt Bridgestone (and therefore Ferrari) badly but that wasn't the reason it was introduced. Similarly, allowing back tyre changes wasn't done to help Ferrari but it's a welcome (IMO) side effect."

    Behind it all I think you will find there is an element of what I have sugggested. The teams voted for the changes and not all teams voted the obvious way for their own performance advantage. And team owners are always looking to maximise their lot which is why we have so many problems and disagreements!

    "No tyre changes led to rather boring races as drivers slowed down to preserve their tyres."

    That is how racing used to be. I prefer the current solution because the cars are faster, we can use strategy far more effectively and you are likely to see more overtaking.

    "I personally can't wait to get back to a single tyre supplier next year. I don't really like championships being decided by tyres and, as you well know, tyres can have more effect on laptime than all other aspects (engine, chassis, aero, driver) put together."

    I think it is bad for F1 as F1 is about making the fastest cars around a circuit. Having 2 manufacturers has guaranteed that for years.

    Your comment is a very interesting one as most people in F1 don't seem to understand that!!

    Ian
     
    Ian Wright, Mar 16, 2006
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  10. Markus S

    Ian Wright

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    Michael and Markus,

    Both of you have raised valid and good points (forgot to say this first!!).

    Ian
     
    Ian Wright, Mar 16, 2006
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  11. Markus S

    GTM Resistance IS Futile !

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    Question is:

    How long are those teams going to be allowed to run with detuned V10s?

    I have to say I'm amazed that the rule makers don't understand that peak horsepower isn't all there is to engine performance. Maybe they're just relying on those teams not having the expertise to be able to utilise the advantages of larger capacity engines with the same peak HP output. Maybe I'm talking out of my hat here because I'm looking at it from the perspective of "normal" (ie non-F1) engine tuning fundamentals.


    GTM
     
    GTM, Mar 16, 2006
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  12. Markus S

    Paul Ranson

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    I've forgotten what car it was, either Button or Schumacher, but during qualifying the upshifts sounded different, like it was hitting a rev limiter between the gears. May be it's normal but it wasn't something I remembered hearing.

    The last part of the new qualifying is just dumb. Politically dim too. And James Allens bubble bollocks grates. Everybody always qualifies, nobody is ever 'on the bubble'....

    Paul
     
    Paul Ranson, Mar 16, 2006
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  13. Markus S

    michaelab desafinado

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    Are you agreeing with me or telling me I'm talking rubbish? (in the nicest possible way of course ;) ).

    I'm not knocking the improvements you guys made to the car when you switched to Michelins but you yourself know what the switch gave you in lap times and I believe it wasn't small!

    Michael.
     
    michaelab, Mar 16, 2006
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  14. Markus S

    michaelab desafinado

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    One thing I found very interesting during the race was when they had Alonso and Schumacher's 'telemetry' up simultaneously as they were following each other. It was very clear how Schumacher was blipping the throttle well into corners to balance the car and then smoothly applying it on the exit with the traction control never coming on whereas Alonso had no throttle at all during the corner and then full on during the exit letting the TC do all the work. Shows that Schumacher is a real driver and Alonso just a PlayStation wizz-kid....

    Michael.
     
    michaelab, Mar 16, 2006
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  15. Markus S

    Ian Wright

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    Hi Michael,

    "Are you agreeing with me or telling me I'm talking rubbish? (in the nicest possible way of course )."

    I was / am telling you that you are correct.

    "I'm not knocking the improvements you guys made to the car when you switched to Michelins but you yourself know what the switch gave you in lap times and I believe it wasn't small!"

    Indeed. F1 isn't about trundling around on daggy slow tyres as a cost saving exercise. It is about using the best tyres out there to get the best performance. Having 2 manufacturers guarantees 2 solutions so the order will vary track to track and perhaps session to session. If they degrade differently then the race will change order as well. For example BS tyres work better in the cold than Mi.

    Who do you think supplied the best tyre for the Bahrain race?

    Right now BS vs Mi is very close.

    Ian
     
    Ian Wright, Mar 17, 2006
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  16. Markus S

    Ian Wright

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    Hi Michael,

    "Alonso had no throttle at all during the corner and then full on during the exit letting the TC do all the work. Shows that Schumacher is a real driver and Alonso just a PlayStation wizz-kid...."

    The Renault works that way and ALO drives the car that way to get the best out of it. FIS has struggled to compete because of the way that their car is. The Ferrari works differently. How much control the drivers have over influencing development at those teams I don't know.

    Also I am not sure how good those telemetry feeds are! But you could well be right.

    Ian
     
    Ian Wright, Mar 17, 2006
    #16
  17. Markus S

    michaelab desafinado

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    My comments about Alonso's ability were tounge in cheek - he's undoubtedly very talented but seems to have a totally different style to MSC. I also wondered about how good those telemetry feeds are.

    At Bahrain I think that Mi and BS were pretty much evenly matched. I do think it's a pity though when, as happened last year, one tyre company (BS) got it so wrong that they effectively put and otherwise competetive Ferrari into the midfield for the whole season - conversely it's no good when BS get it so right that Ferrari is virtually unbeatable. My point was I don't think it's good to have one variable that can completely overshadow all others.

    Michael.
     
    michaelab, Mar 17, 2006
    #17
  18. Markus S

    Ian Wright

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    Hi Michael,

    "one tyre company (BS) got it so wrong that they effectively put and otherwise competetive Ferrari into the midfield for the whole season - conversely it's no good when BS get it so right that Ferrari is virtually unbeatable"

    Sorry to dissapoint you here. The 2005 Ferrari was a bad car. They blamed the tyres for far too long and so didn't realise that thecar was 50% of the problem. On Michelins in 2005 it would not have been a front runner, despite having MSC in the car. Renault and McLaren would have been much faster!

    Ian
     
    Ian Wright, Mar 17, 2006
    #18
  19. Markus S

    Stuart

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    Hi,

    I think Ian covered the Ferrari '05 situation pretty well above, but the other key issue was BS not having input from other decent teams to help develop, or even benchmark, their tires.

    Don't know if you are still an AtlasF1 subscriber, but there was an interesting comment in one of their recent articles about BS tire development for this season, something to the effect that Ferrari/MS were the first to try a new construction and more or less rejected it. BS gave the tires to Williams to test, Wurz' initial comments were in line with Schumachers but Williams were able to adapt the car to the tires and got very good performance from them.

    Anyway, really enjoyed Bahrain and very much looking forward to Malaysia tonight (delayed telecast for some reason - one of the few GPs that fits happily into our time zone and they delay the telecast - not happy).

    Regards,

    Stuart.
     
    Stuart, Mar 18, 2006
    #19
  20. Markus S

    michaelab desafinado

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    I'm not saying Ferrari would have been up there with Renault in '05 had they had Mi tyres but they would have been much, much better. The car can't have been that bad to manage 3rd in both titles!

    I'll have to find that Atlas F1 (sorry, Autosport.com :( ) article, sounds interesting.

    I found Malaysia disappointing. Rosberg out with an engine failure and Schumacher getting beaten fair and square by Massa who started from further behind! OK, different strategies and all that but it's not what you expect from MSC. Hope it was just a one off.

    And WTF is up with Barrichello??

    Great to see Fisi getting the win though - it's time he deserved a bit of luck.

    Michael.
     
    michaelab, Mar 20, 2006
    #20
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