The McLaren penalty

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by tones, Sep 14, 2007.

  1. tones

    tones compulsive cantater

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    Does anyone else think that this whole business is cockeyed? As someone who has worked in the intellectual property field all my life, I found hilarious the reference to "Ferrari intellectual property" on next year's McLaren.

    The whole thing about F1 is that everybody copies everyone else all the time. Nobody ever patents anything, simply because it wouldn't be worth it - it would be outdated before the patent application even got to examination. There would certainly be copyright in engineering drawings, some aspects of design right and confidential information considerations. However, it seems to me that, given the complex machines that current F1 cars are, they are designed more or less of a piece, and you simply can't take a bit off a Ferrari and stick it on a McLaren (at least not without changing the colour drastically :D) and expect it to work. The implication is that Ferrari discovered something rather fundamental that could be universally applied to other cars to their advantage. I find it hard to believe that Ferrari could do that.

    I'll be interested to hear the reasoning behind the judgement, but I can't escape the feeling that McLaren has been unfairly pilloried.

    The best thing McLaren can do is to come first and second in the driver's championship, and show everyone who is the real champion.
     
    tones, Sep 14, 2007
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  2. tones

    7_V I want a Linn - in a DB9

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    I agree. Bear in mind also that the documents were handed to a member of the McLaren team by a member of the Ferrari team. They certainly weren't stolen.

    The punishment is out of all proportion. I'm inclined to think that Ron Dennis, after discussion with Mercedes and his sponsors, should tell the FIA that if they don't score they don't race. See what that would do to the viewing figures.
     
    7_V, Sep 14, 2007
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  3. tones

    Dev Moderator

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    I tend to agree but there must be more to it than we have heard. Otherwise the penalty is just ridiculous. The only "crime" committed I can think of is the theft of Ferrari property and McLaren did break the law by having stolen goods in their possession according to Ferrari, or as McLaren admit, in their employee's possession.

    How can McLaren prove that their car is free of any "Ferrari intellectual property"?

    I stopped watching F1 long ago and cannot see any reason to start again.
     
    Dev, Sep 14, 2007
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  4. tones

    Dev Moderator

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    Even McLaren don't dispute that the documents were stolen from Ferrari (even if it was by their own employee).
     
    Dev, Sep 14, 2007
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  5. tones

    7_V I want a Linn - in a DB9

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    So one of McLaren's employees was certainly in receipt of stolen goods. Even so, the issues are:

    1. To what extent, if any, did McLaren use that information in the development of their car?

    2. Is the punishment, $100m fine + disqualification from the Constructors Championship, fair and appropriate?

    David Tremayne brings up some interesting questions in his article here.
     
    7_V, Sep 14, 2007
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  6. tones

    Dev Moderator

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    Steve, I don't disagree, but just asking what new evidence has been presented to the FIA? McLaren did initially seem to get "away with it". Now they seem to have gone to the other extreme, not that I believe that McLaren will pay $100m. I'm hoping we'll learn more but I can't imagine what McLaren could have done to deserve such penalties.
     
    Dev, Sep 14, 2007
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  7. tones

    tones compulsive cantater

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    The "silver spoon" business seems rather irrelevant and indeed rather snide. I once heard Max Moseley interviewed; one of the reasons he became so involved in motor sport was that he could be his own person, away from any contamination from his (in)famous father. He recalled a race meeting in which he participated in his youth. A competitor came up to him. "Max Moseley, eh? You must be the son of...[Oh no! thought Max, here we go...]...old Fred Moseley, the motor tuner from Nether Wallop..." Max loved it.

    As for the anti-McLaren business, the size of the penalty suggests either McLaren skullduggery on an unparalleled scale or (appropriately perhaps for Sir Oswald's son) a Night of the Long Knives.
     
    tones, Sep 14, 2007
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  8. tones

    kmac

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    If the information is of no use to Mclaren, why did the mclaren engineer have it in the first place? clearly he thought it would be useful no?

    Whether they used the info or not is not the point - they stole it. That can't be condoned.
     
    kmac, Sep 14, 2007
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  9. tones

    Dev Moderator

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    Look on the bright side. Now no team will be seen dead having other team's documents in it's possession:D.
     
    Dev, Sep 14, 2007
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  10. tones

    Markus S Trade

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    Which is the whole point of the exercise.
     
    Markus S, Sep 14, 2007
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  11. tones

    Dev Moderator

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    To me it all seems a bit bizarre. If McLaren have benefited then punish the drivers as well, if they haven't then don't take away their constructors points. The financial penalty (not necessarily the $100m) should stand for possessing stolen documents if there is evidence to suggest that McLaren knew about the stolen documents. After all, it's natural to want a peek;).

    FIA did say that they'll reveal the details, so let's see what they have to say.
     
    Dev, Sep 14, 2007
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  12. tones

    Dev Moderator

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    Dev, Sep 14, 2007
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  13. tones

    Dev Moderator

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    Dev, Sep 14, 2007
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  14. tones

    wolfgang

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    Just confirm again why I have considered the FIA, Ferrari and the so call F1 sporting event as a big farce. What I don't understand is why all the other leading car manufacturers never break away to form their own motorsport years ago.
     
    wolfgang, Sep 14, 2007
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  15. tones

    Markus S Trade

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    Sounds not unreasonable. No mention of "Ferrari intellectual property" either.
     
    Markus S, Sep 14, 2007
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  16. tones

    Dev Moderator

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    Thank you Markus.

    Ron Dennis must love Alonso even more now:D.
     
    Dev, Sep 14, 2007
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  17. tones

    tones compulsive cantater

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    Confidential information, know-how and trade secrets not in the public domain are a form of intellectual property, Markus.
     
    tones, Sep 14, 2007
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  18. tones

    sq225917 Exposer of Foo

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    i bet Hamilton is spitting teeth, no podium if he wins..
     
    sq225917, Sep 14, 2007
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  19. tones

    Bob McC living the life of Riley

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    Why not?
     
    Bob McC, Sep 14, 2007
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  20. tones

    Dev Moderator

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    That's part of the punishment. I.e. no podiums for McLaren drivers.
     
    Dev, Sep 15, 2007
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