The mini-bakeoff

A distinctly small-scale, and hurredly arranged affair...

The protaganists were myself, WM and Tim F.

The main thing was the comparison of the NAD S300 with the Krell KAV300i, with a few other things along the way.

Of course, we did a bit of cable swapping and so on, and the consensus seemed to be that at the end, when taking all of the cables out and going back to the original set of cables, that there was a clear difference, particularly with my DIY speaker cable that is clearly on the bright side.

The krell looks distinctly unassuming when placed on top of the massive S300, although the front panel is rather livelier with a mixture of blue and red LEDs, buttons and graphics, but it is diminutive in size and weight relatively.

And onto the sound....

The Krell's bass was certainly bigger than the NAD, although I felt that the NAD was deeper, faster and tighter. The midrange, almost suprisingly, was where the krell shone through a bit more, with good presence for vocals. The NAD was a little recessed comparatively, although from prior work and experimentation, I know that this is largely a room effect, which the krell seemed to get over rather better. Treble there wasn't a lot between the two. Perhaps a little harsher on the Krell, but not to the point that some people might believe.

It was an interesting comparison, and neither amplifier disgraced itself. That the NAD is half the price (£1499 rrp, vs £2899) is impressive, although it is worth noting that the Gryphon Tabu Century, which is the donor design for the S300, retailed around £3000 or so. I think on balance, with what I know about the room, that I preferred the NAD for its musical approach. I think everyone agreed though that the room was doing no favours at all to the system with either amplifier. It will certainly be interesting to see how different things are after I've moved house on tuesday, when the system gets to be the primary occupant of the living room.

 

An interesting afternoon was had for sure, big thanks to Iaasc for hosting this jaunt, and to Tim who lugged his Krell along for the comparision, good to meet up and chat about all things music & hifi
We were listening to Iaascs nad300/Marantz cd16 (unmodded) superdac (tweeked & psu), medowlark Kestrals, his home made s/cable and some spitfire i/c's.
Tim was quite surprised at the sound the Kestrals were producing, I must admit I've not heard Iaasc's set up lately, he's moved the speakers about, accquired some granite plinths.
The result is a postive one, although his room remains the biggest limiting factor.
The guys selected some tracks, and we were rockin'
the 300, has a good grip on the proceedings, tight tuneful and accurate bass, giving the Krestrals some thing to get they're teeth into, in the depth dept
The mid range, is sweet but some what recessed, clear and detailed, but the stage is set back into the centre of the speakers,
The upper frqenices were more open, but in the same vein 'lit up more' the PRaT was there, in a nice balance also.
Imaging was noticably 'solid' and firm with a higher stage plane, the S300 was also delighting us in its ability to flow with the music.
This is a cracking amp, I feel the 100wpc is a little conservative, looks clean & neat, simple controls, but its big, heavy and gets a wee warm.
Upon first hearing the system Tim initially felt, the Krell would be too bright for the room, however things transposed in a different light.
The guys let the krell warm up for 3/4 hour or so, before cutting loose with 'Keane', as expected the Big bass sprang forth encompassing the room, fuller more rounded with a forwardness that 'put in the room' in some style.
The surprise was the mid range, very nice, more texture than the S300, more body, and it filled it this section of the sound frame, for me better than the Nad, although inhereintly less detailed, it seemed 'more correct'. & natural
The top end were far from Tims fears, in fact anything but bright,
It couldn't match the detail of the Nad, but in the presenation it was throwing at us, it didn't matter, it was right for the that and total inoffensive too.
The Krell (300i) certainly has a more forward balance, a bigger sound, and on the day a richer feel to it
Bass preformance, split, the Krell better weight and physical size of bass, the Nad was Tighter, cleaner and went deeper, Oh and timing, Tim wasn't quite sure what we this ment in the context of the music, in the end it boiled down to his discription 'Lumpy bass'
The Nad has a greater sence of rythymic flow & timing, the Krell has the power and the weight.
Mid Band, for me on the Day, the Krell took the honours, more texture, body and real feel, the Nad was more detailed and solid, but not as much texture and recessed.
Upper frequenices, The S300 more open and detail, but brighter (not hard or brash), the Krell more resevered, but still in proportion to its sound, both pretty good.
So what was gleened, well its how you like spuds roasted, chipped or Roshday'd.
The Nad, detailed powerful, open, agile, deep tuneful bass, good soundstaging and imaging (dual mono transformers)
The Krell, Big full bass, room encompassing sound, nice mid range balance, thicker sounding and clean top end, deep sound stage, although for me utimately less involving.
The Krell model was the 300i, I would point out the 300il is a bit different.
Basically both (for me) are pretty even in the sounds stakes (just how do you like yours?), both are built extreamly well, the Krell is less imposing and has a higher power rating 150wpc as opposed to 100wpc (I feel this is very conservative though)
Price may be an issue, the Nad £1500, Krell (300il) £2600 (400il is £3k I think).
Anyway cheers to both Iaasc & Tim for their time. Wm

 

Interesting comparison guys, ta for sharing .

What did you do mains-wize for the comparison? Both plugged straight into a wall socket with bog standard leads , or something else... ?

 

For the comparison, both amps were connected by an old prototype Omiga mains lead to an Olson filtered mains block which was plugged into the wall.

 

Cheers. I asked as presumeably at least part of the cost of more expensive amps goes on better power supplies etc., the benefits of which could presumeably be minimised by good mains treatment in the first place? I can't remember the exact models (and can't be arsed to Google to check now) but there was a HiFi News review comparing two Bryston power amps, with the more expensive one barely coming out better, but during the test they were both used on the end of a Isotek 2k cube IIRC.

 

Probably between a 3BSST and a 14BSST.

Review

I believe Bryston suggests not using any conditioning or mains treatment.

 

Yes that was the review; well found sir! I'd have been quite interested in a comparison of the 3BSST and the 2K Qube to the 14BSST on it's own, but maybe that's just me...

Isaac et als comparision looks pretty fair to me BTW, not knowing about the mains treatment just reminded me of the Bryston review that's all.

M.

 

We have had very good results with Brystons with both leads and power conditioners (various makes) (9bst/4bst/Bp25) although none of the power boxes have contained transformers of any discription. Totally passive units
Wadia too, recommend that the O.E. lead is retained as it's (according to Wadia) the only lead you'l need for their kit

 

Seconded. I'm quite stoked for an S300 now

 

Well, my big move oop norf is happening tomorrow. If you're ever up there pete you're welcome to drop by. There will be a housewarming/bakeoff/cross-forums meet when I get around to organising. I know WM is venturing up to the area sometime, so he will be able to comment on how the new room compares...

 

Good luck with your move Isaac. I hope it all goes smoovely for you

 

Watch this space. If my SF move go ahead I'll be looking to part with mine.

 

But of course .

 

Just me....

Thanks to Issac + Tony for a great day even though my friends nearly shot me for being over 1 hour late!

Tony is a very very knowledgable guy and you'd all be wise to listen when he talks about stuff!

On to the amps. I found both impressive (the Krell has now gone so will remain a memory). I will refer to some of my experiences of the Krell on my Mirages too.

The speakers were amazing for their size, really great! My first experience of Kestral.

The room for me gave the biggest character in the demo, it appeared to be affecting the sound across all the frequencies (less so the trebble), it certainly gave the system an interesting sound.

Bass. The Krell was a little overblown. It seemed to be over emphised and slow. I am very suspicious of the room resonance here, it doesn't boom or sound bloated on my Mirages, making the Audio Research sound loose. There is certainly more bass there on the Krell. It's interesting that if bass overpowers the music, it can be very detrimental to overall sound. I actually found the Krell annoying on occassions. The Nad seemed to suit the room well, it's bass was just "right" for the setup.

Midrange, well I actually enjoyed both. The Krell was more forward, I'm very suspicious of the pre-amp for this, as I found as power only it's more neutral. Vocals on both amps were excellent.
I have found the Krell a little cynical with vocals, removing warmth and replacing it with detail, this didn't seem to be a problem through the Krestrals.

Trebble, both amps were emphising this a bit too much for my liking, I was noticing siblance. The guys were convinced that this was cabling and without an arguement over snake oil, I do feel that there was improved when we put all the cables Tony had in the system. No idea what cost that would have been but I suspect a fair bit! I'm still not convinced over mains cables though.

At the end of the day, I'd have hated to choose between the amps, they both have their own character. The NAD is excellent. For the price the Krells now sell at these are also excellent. Given the origional RRP's (if I was buying full price) I'd have bought the NAD. Other than that I think it really depends on your system and what you look for in an amp, so go and buy both! Neither got in a mess when the music got complex.

I've just got hold of Audio Analogue Bellini and Donizetti's so maybe we can do some more reviews!

Cheers, Tim

 

Thanks to tim and wm for coming, and giving their thoughts.

I think what we saw more than anything was that the room will play such a big part in any high-end installation that you have to buy your components around the room you are going to put them in if you can. That hasn't really been possible for me, and I think part of what the krell came up against was that I'd tuned the position of the speakers around the NAD and the cables I was using (and certainly I had found that I ran the speakers further out from the back wall with the omiga speaker cable previously).

I am hoping that the new room when I move tomorrow will be better (It should be, not having a bed or clothes, etc, etc, etc in it). We shall see!

 

Yup; totally agree with that. Hopefully you'll be in your new home for a good long time so you can get everything sorted for it. I wish I knew where I was going to be living longer term so I could properly sort out my system. (I gave the TDL's a miss BTW, seemed the 'sensible' thing to do, as much as I was tempted.).