The placebo effect and cables

We often see mentioned in any number of cable discussions the possible effect of this.

Its interesting to see that the placebo proposers totally fail to mention the Nocebo effect ....I contend that this is what could be happening when they listen to different cables ...and hear no differences between there freebie and the exotics.

further suggested reading on the subject includes

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A2709-2002Apr29
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nocebo

this one is good as it talks about the negative expectations
http://medical.merriam-webster.com/medical/nocebo

http://skepdic.com/nocebo.html

 

I guess the cable topic will go on for as long as cables exist. Wires are a pain really aren't they? They get in the way, get tangled up, look ugly, cost to much or not enough......sound different possibly ( even if we only think they do ).

I say we all go wireless, but then there's the quality of the air the signal passes through etc......it's just a mine field ain't it !

 

I see you couldnt resist getting another dig in

Robbo (not a cable sceptic but sick of the whole topic)

 

Is this all really necessary- tis the season of goodwill to all men after all

 

Zanash you were warned yesterday:
http://www.zerogain.com/forum/showpost.php?p=224756&postcount=74
You've started yet another pointless thread, and couldn't resist including yet another negative insult to other members. Are you going to moderate your post yourself or do I have to do it? If I have to do it I'll ban you as well.

 

I agree completely about the little dig, but I dont agree about this being a pointless thread.
In fact the whole brain / Ear interface is the crux of the whole hifi debate on all components, not just cables and things labled "woo"

 

face it in most of the places we live in - out houses, flats, bedrooms, cardboard boxes, spending anything more than a grand or 2 on hi-fi is pointless - room effects, neighbors, children, s/o's, etc all mean that totally accurate reproduction of what you'd hear in a live performance is utterly impossible.
the arguments, back biting, name calling and vehment and combatitve justification that goes on here on both sides of the fence is utterly laughable. ha ha i laugh in your general direction.

 

I agree, the original post is valid and potentially very interesting.

Yes, personal digs are lamentable but the OP is far from the worst offender on ZG. I would expect that if zanash is banned for this offence, several other members would also be despatched forthwith.

 

I consider it an honour to be called a sceptic, even if it wasn't aimed personally at me. In fact, I listen to sceptic podcasts regularly I do science too!

 

great! another cable thread.

I vote for combining them into one giant, stinking, smelly old turd of a thread.

Perhaps under a ''bollocks'' section of the forum...!

 

Yep, my thoughts exactly. I'm so SO bored of all these cable threads, Gah! It's non stop!

 

ftr...

totally.

 

There is value here - and to the cable threads in general.
I am moderating my beliefs - I can cope with snide comments.

Like many other I am open to ideas that might help explain why some people (including me) think cables sound different.

Andy

 

Placebo effect and autosuggestion you have everywhere not only with cables.

There are people that suddenly hear different mostly because they know what components are playing.
Others believe that the sound is terrible because they see no acoustic room treatment. When you tell them that the walls have good acoustic plaster then they slowly start to change their mind.
Others hear good or bad sound according to the technical specifications or what unreliable information they get, which could strengthen their believe in something.

Well guys sit down and enjoy listen to music. Make friends with people who don't see thing in your own way. They are also lovely people when you get to know them. And enjoy life.

Happy Christmas and happy new year.

 

"Make friends with people who don't see thing in your own way. They are also lovely people when you get to know them. And enjoy life."


Titian - one of the finest comments made on this forum, a sound view on the world in general. May I buy you a drink?

 

My sentiments exactly.

 

I've edited to remove any possible miss understanding ...

this is totally relevant.....imo the placebo effect is mentioned in every cable thread as a proposed mechanism .....therefore the Nocebo is as valid and more to the point people should know of its existance.

If you think it of no value delete it ....

 

So long as one interprets it correctly: it would be the perception that something is making the sound worse when it actually is doing nothing. This is not the same as the absence of an effect making things sound better. One example that springs to mind might be the claim that the presence of a digital watch in the listening room (presumably "because" of its little bleeper) makes things worse.

PS I should perhaps clarify: a nocebo conclusion would be when the subjects on some trials believe there is a digital watch in the room, say it sounds worse, then the experimenter finds on those trials it was actually a dummy watch.

 

All these cable debates are pointless, IMO. Everyone has their own opinion. Many try to 'prove' their opinion to be correct. It's like a bunch of adolescents all insistent that their own views are, of course, the correct ones; 'no, I'm right'; no I'm right', ad nauseam. Similar behaviour is also often observed in politicians.

ZG has become a mire of this child like behaviour and is in danger of becoming a bit of a laughing stock because of it. I, for one, visit less than I used to. To judge from the low activity, many others are also voting with their feet.

Let's just stick to commenting/advising on kit and related technical issues ~ there is much experience within the ZG community which would benefit all. 'Discussing' pieces of wire seriously detracts from this.

 

Agreed

Its all to easy to get sucked into pointless arguements...I think we all know the variety well enough now.

Sounds sensible.