The Smiths, Joy Division and REM tonight on C4

These bands will be featured in the UK Music Hall of Fame. I am surprised Joy Division is being featured on such a mainstream TV programme. I would have thought Kylie would have been more suitable for the typical common demoninator (can't spell it ha!) C4 is designed for :MILD:

I can't complain though I probably have more JD t-shirts than their albums (well not quite).

I am also looking foward to the Smiths feature as like JD they are one of my favourite bands and Morrissey is one of my favourite artists.

I would go out tonight, but I am watching Chan-nel 4.

 

My guess is they just give both bands a passing mention. There is possibly a chance that The Smiths might make the final list, but I'd be astounded if Joy Division did unless they lump them in with New Order. Joy Division are technically a 70s band, not an 80s one anyway - it was all over by mid 1980.

Here's my guess for C4's final 80s list:

U2
Madonna
Michael Jackson
Human League
Simply Red

A more sensible list IMHO would be:

Josef K
The Smiths
The Pixies
Happy Mondays
The JAMMS / KLF

Tony.

 

Without wanting to cause a flame-war, why should the likes of The Smiths, Pixies etc. be a more sensible choice ?

Although these bands are excellent, in terms of sheer popularity/sales/charts success they pale into insignificance against the likes of u2 and Michael Jackson (hey - where's Prince !?).

Surely commercial success (directly linked to popularity) is a more exact measure than critical acclaim ?

 

The TV listings make out that those The Smiths, Joy Divison and REM are featured. Tony Wislon is also on the panel of judges On the trailer I saw a graphic which was featured on the 1988 Blue Monday remix so I think New Order will be featured some how.

I think maybe they listed JD because there is more cult interest in them. But like you say JD ended in May 1980 so its probably more likely that New Order will be featured but of course they have to go into detail about JD to mention New Order.

Don't forget that JD may not have sold many records they have influenced many artists. New Order have also sold more than 20 million records and are amongst the biggest selling artists in the UK, although they in no way match Madonna, Elton John or Cliff Richard.

The Smiths have also influenced many bands but also apparantly (I was only a todler at the time) influenced many teenagers growing up in the 80's. To this day they still influence many young adults as so many people can relate to the lyrics and Morrissey's odd ways.

He is a pop star that dosn't do drugs or brothels, instead he would rather spend his time alone watching corrie

At the end of the day it is called MUSIC hall of fame and not ENTERNIANMENT so I am glad not so commericaly successful bands are being featured. It has t be far better than endless SAW products being featured. Bands like Simply Red have not influenced people in the same way, he makes pop songs for masses but it is not exactly ground breaking.

 

Because they are not crap

Tony.

 

Purely subjective .

 

subjective, but correct.

 

I think the programme is really flawed. What's the point of putting Joy Division and Public Enemy [however excellent they were] up against George Michael and Duran Duran ??.

For the programme to work it should have either decided to be elitist or populist, but not both.

Paul

 

Which is best, a fish or an orange? No amount of research can make such a question valid. This kind of show is always very silly.

It also needs to be accurate - I still can't understand why Joy Division are counted as a 80s band when they only existed for a matter of months in that decade. The same argument is valid with Springsteen, his most critically acclaimed albums were all made in the 70s.

Tony.

 

Joy Division were out of place, they didn't have the output especially in the 80's to make their inclusion worthwhile. No Elvis Costello is a travesty, and why have Michael Jackson and Prince. Prince is undoubtably worthy of inclusion. Also why were U2 and Madge automatically put through? Surely they should take their chances like everyone else. Was very dodgy indeed. Guns and Roses, don't make me laugh.

 

Leaving personal bias aside (I really like JD, Smiths and REM!), and also ignoring the timeline inaccuracies previously discussed it still made no sense to me. It did not represent the 80s at all. IMHO the 80s timeline is along the lines of:

Early 80s:
Post punk / new wave: Josef K, Orange Juice, Young Marble Giants, Cure, ACR, New Order, The The etc.
Synth pop: Human League, OMD, Soft Cell, Depeche Mode, Heaven 17 etc.
New romantic: Adam Ant, Duran Duran, Visage, Spandau Ballet.
Birth of rap: Grandmaster Flash etc.

Mid 80s:
Early sampling: FGTH, Art Of Noise, Propaganda etc.
Indie: Smiths, Half man Half Biscuit, Wedding Present, REM etc.
Goth: Sisters of Mercy, Mission, Danse Society etc.
Industrial: Einstuzender Neubarten, Test Department, Whitehouse etc.
Poodle rock: Guns 'n' Roses, Dio, etc.
Thrash: Napalm Death, Extreme Noise Terror etc.
Birth of grunge: Minutemen, Sonic Youth, Husker Du, Pixies etc.

Late 80s:
Madchester: Happy Mondays, Stone Roses, Inspiral Carpets etc.
Birth of house / techno: JAMMS, 808 State, Plus 8 records etc.
Stadium Rock: U2, Simple Minds etc.
Coffee table / yuppie wine bar: Simply Red, Sade etc.
World music: Bhundu Boys, Thomas Mapfumo, Fela Kuti etc.

This to me was not represented in the program at all.

Tony.

 

Not sure about this timeline. Sade had her biggest hit in about '84 as I remember, and surely Simple Minds and U2 had become US stadium fodder by the mid-eighties already? Ah, probably not.
Musically, hearing King Sunny Ade on Alexis Korner's radio prog sometime in the early 80s caused me to change what I listened to entirely.
My eighties timeline goes something like:
1980 -- Motorhead / BB King
1981 -- Muddy Waters / Mingus
1981/82ish -- African pop / Coltrane
1986/7ish -- SALSA
1987 --Paris therefore JAZZ at Le New Morning, Rai and Franco everywhere.
I was sadly far too busy for the remainder of the decade to listen to music, but do have very fond memories of driving all the way around Iceland with Led Zep distorting away beautifully on a Ghetto Blaster in the front seat next to me circa 1990.

 

One major problem I had with the entire Joy Division part was some accuracies. As already mentioned they were a 70's band and not 80's. Their roots are all deeply 1970's. (Influences Bowie, Kraftwerk and Sex Pistols for example).

I also objected the way they claimed Wilson discovered them because he didn't. It was Rob Gretton (JD's manager) who introdueced Wilson to them. The truth was Wilson daringly gambeled away his mothers inheratance money to setup the record label Factory.

I also objected partly the to Smiths article. They over used the statement that a lot of lonely people listenened to them. If Morrissey's move gig was anything go by it was anything but the case.

I think the hall of fame would have been much better if it was done by genre rather than decade. This way Joy Divison could have been up against the Smiths which is a far more realistic scenario.

 

Yeah - I reckon the main problem is the splitting into decades. Unfortunately very few major bands conveniently fit into these time slots as has been pointed out. If Springsteen is in cos of his big 'hit' of BITUSA in the 80's (rather than critical highpoints in the 70's) then surely REM are a 90's band with OOT and AFTP (rather than the innovative stuff in the 80's). Its all a load of bollocks anyway - with pervy Theakston trying to be witty. The upside is getting to see some decent music on the telly and the opportunity to argue like mad with anyone who watched and disagrees with you!

Rich

....and yes Costello should deffo have been in - his new one is great as well.

 

The New Order forums are currently huming about that programme. Many people think that New Order should have been featured because they had more impact of 1980's music. In reality JD only had an influence on some music lovers who were very into their music at the time.

I am not sure why Public Enemey were featured as its not UK and many people argue they had much more impact in the USA than the UK.

I suppose I should be greatful that two of my favourite bands were featured and I didn't have to damage my ears listening to Kylie or Simply Red.

 

jamie theakston and his crimewatch tone. by and large the program made me vomit