the TVC transparency thing?

Firstly, my experience in this area is limited to hearing a MF pre for about ten minutes - though this was at home and in direct comparison to lots of other bits.

The bit that really did it for me was the (perceived) natural rendition of (particularly) voice and as far as I can gather this is what generally falls under the HiFi speak heading of 'transparency'.

So, question: is that degree of transparency the sole preserve of this box, or even this type of box or are there other classes of box that do it just as well? And, to be fair, I'd probably be more interested in answers that were nearer Promitheus money then MF.

Thankyou

 

Ive heard a connasance TVC at home and also own the Promi - They sound similar. I would say they are both generally more transparent and natural certainly in the midband than Valve or transistor pre amps in the same price range.

 

From what I've read on this forum, some of the cheaper TVCs run the Music First very close and are, likely, better VFM.

On the subject of transparancy, comparing TVCs to active stages, the Music First copper beats my pricier valve preamp hands down.

I've read on these pages that you have to spend a LOT of money to find an active pre that matches or beats a TVC on transparancy.

Of those people who have expressed a strong anti-TVC view here, none of them have ever come up with an alternative close to the RRP of a TVC. They invariably use the example of a £20K ish Kondo active pre as their TVC beater for detail retrieval.

If anyone knows of an active pre that is as transparant as a TVC for sensible money, say, between £2K-£3.5K, I'd be very interested in it.

Edit: note the above is purely on the subject of transparancy and nothing else.

 

I have a Glasshouse TVC and a slightly tweaked World-Designs pre3 kit, and to my ears they sound remarkably similar- probably something to do with the pre3 having wacking great output transformers. The pre3 has a bit more boogie and punch the tvc is maybe a little smoother....but it's close.

 

Hmmm, interesting. Sounds like its worth a listen, then.

 

The most transparent preamp is no preamp. I dont have any truck with the damn things myself

 

I guess you'd need a good quality switching box for more than one source. Can you recommend one, or is it something you'd make up? I need something myself.

 

Nick at hifi collective is putting one together for me.

My experience is that a good switch is inaudible.

 

Coda 11 - I have a Promi TVC fully run In - old syle transformers
£125. or latest version with mk 3 transformers £175.

They both sound the same to me.

Both std rca versions.

Money back if not happy after 2 weeks.

Andy

 

I have a mint MFA passive on sale for £950 but above your budget.


Thanks BBV, I may get in touch with Nick, too.

 

Thanks for the various offers - pocket money is all spent for this month though (speakers). The Promitheus is on the would like to try list, so may get back to you before too long.

 

I suppose the obvious question (to me anyway) is what happens if you take the Alps pot out of the pre3 and use a TVC instead?

There'll be some technical stuff in there I'm sure and there's the cost factor but would you actually get the best of both?

 

Good question=)
The only ways I can think to try this are either re-case the pre3 to a much larger box or run the cabling out, to the tvc. I don't think I'll be trying it for a while- but maybe one day...
I did do the shunt mod to the alps which brought about a slight improvement in clarity etc, but the biggest benefit was that it allowed more usable range to the volume pot.
I have a dact pot that I might try in the pre3 too one day, but i'm trying to stay away from stepped switched volumes, I always seemed to want a volume that was inbetween "clicks"
I have no idea if the impedences of the tvc would match with the pre3- I only know enough to follow instructions (providing they also come with lots of pictures)

 

Just had a look and Promitheus do an active pre with TVC and valves called the Apollo.

 

That'll be me then. I have consistently said that I prefer a shunted potentiometer over a TVC. A nice pair of resistors (vishay, caddock, riken) with an Alps Blue or (better) PEC cement or (better yet but OTT) DACT. Even the last is cheaper than any TVC available.

 

That'll be me then. I have consistently said that I prefer a shunted potentiometer over a TVC. A nice pair of resistors (vishay, caddock, riken) with an Alps Blue or (better) PEC cement or (better yet but OTT) DACT. Even the last is cheaper than any TVC available.

 

For around 18 years years I have only had passive preamps
First a QED one then two different Audio synthesis ones. " three months ago I bought a Promethieus TVC. As I hear it the bass is a bit bloaty (in my system) compared with the Veshayed AS unit. but all other areas such as transparency and realism are a large improvement. You should note there are polarised views - The guy I bought the TVC from was actually going back to a Audio Synthesis passion veshay unit. There are others who swear that for them active valve or transistor preamps are better.

My TVC sound very different with each setup I use it on sometimes sounding fantastic other times dissapointing - usually its bass related - No one seems to have challenged the TVC in terms of its transparency.

Back to your orig question - If transparency one of your top objectives and your system isnt already too fat sounding a TVC could be just what you are looking for.

Andy

 

i agree with the above....i borrowed the ref mono version of the promethius (very kindly from don) and whilst it was very clean overall...the bass was too much for my system...i also felt the vocals were a little recessed for my tastes...i tried a number of pre amps and found the prom very good but not for me....it is very clean though and when you compare to a n active pre...you know the active is making up some of what you hear, whether this be texture, warmth or whatever...i think that if you match your system to one, it could be magic...

 

I'd agree as well. I borrowed the standard MF Audio copper unit and to be honest preferred the Alps pot in my amplifier. Although the TVC "sounded" more transparent, the Alps was actually giving me more musical information.

Andy, have you heard the Audio Synthesis?

 

Yep I have had a AS pro passion veshay for 14 years so I know it quite well. I plugged the AS back in yesterday just for a reality check (knowing that a few others on this forum have been returning to resistives or active preamps).

I much prefer the TVC sound it just works for me in my system - It is a little less "detailed sounding" and the bass is quite warm compared with the AS unit but I think the information is all there it is just presented in a more intimate and ultimately more realistic way. Contary to your thoughts I find it much more musical than the AS. So much more musical in fact I am very surprised to see a debate evolving? A month or so ago a mate (yes I have a couple of them) brought round a Audio Research SP11 active pre amp and we had a listen (is a bake out the term used?) to all three bits for an whole evening. As I may have mentioned before on this forum the upshot was he put his SP11 on ebay the next day and sold it. It was so far behind the passives it had to go. This one just one several classics we have tried of late that seem vastly over rated.


If I had to give marks out of ten for

transparency
AR SP11 - 2
AS Propassion veshay - 6
Prometheus TVC - 8

Detail
AR SP11 - 2
AS Propassion veshay - 8
Prometheus TVC - 7


Musicallity
AR SP11 - 2
AS Propassion veshay - 7
Prometheus TVC - 9


I havent yet found a realistically priced active preamp that is transparent enough to let music out of it. They all sound muddy to me. I havent been to a show for about 8 years so I am looking forward to Heathrow maybe I will find something there?

I hope my opinion is workable for ZG users without science? I cant do it.

Andy