Tube amp and speaker help please

Hi David!

Just to say - I really don't think so !

Well, from where I'm coming from a shop-bought new valve amp will have the manufacturers margin, the distributors margin and the retails margin. It will have an eye on price at every stage, so you are unlikely to get high quality caps, resistors etc.

Comparing with a kit amp, you can spec it up any way you want. There is only the manufacturers margin - no distributor or retailer margin.

I would expect a £1,000 kit amp to be the equivalent of something far more expensive from a retailer. Think... 'Caterham 7 vs a Vauxhall Astra'.. for retail vs kit amps of the same price.

Many kit amp manufacturers will proffessionally build the amps for you for a small fee, making a product that will sound better, depreciate far less and have much better components inside than a typical high street brand.

costs more = more sound , is unfortunately not the case IME/IMO

 

Hi Bottleneck, interesting post. Of course a manufacturer purchased product should retail for less than one that has more people in the sales chain. To say that better components are used really depends on the manufacturer and I would not know how to specify an amplifier as I am not a hifi designer.

To use your analogy I could go to Caterham and buy a kit car £20-30k but would prefer a Porsche Boxster £40k (if only), not an Astra £15k. Of course the Porsche is more expensive but it is a better car (subjective). I am looking for a hifi equiv of a Porsche if that helps. (Finish on the Caterham is not up to Porsche standards either, another consideration)

Also I need to be able to compare any products that I might consider buying and if I do not like them to return them to the dealer/manufacturer. Will a kit based manufacturer build me a kit, loan it to me, and if I do not like it accept it back without cost to me?

Thanks David.

 

Manchester, why?

 

Well I only mentioned it cos you described yourself as "a Quad Guy" Brand new Quad valve monos are unlikely to sound like a 30 year old 303 in dire need of a service.

 

Hi David, you may want to look at Kondo amplifiers.

They have very high quality internal parts (as good or better than the best kit amps), and a better finish.

You may want to keep saving however

 

Sorry, I realise that was misleading as I meant the company standing rather than the sound of their product - which is still good though but maybe not 'me' now. What I meant was I bought from a long established, respected company who made reliable products, have a good dealer network and can look after your gear well into the future. These things are very important to us.

 

Sadly we have no ability to save! This money is all that we have £8-10k (the more on the hifi the less on the new kitchen!). I have done some quick Googling but cannot find a Uk dealer or any prices. Presumably the Japan Audio Note is different to the UK Audio Note with different products?

 

Hi,

You can get Kondo amps from Definitive Audio. They are the UK agents for the Kondo. You need to give them a ring about prices.

http://www.definitiveaudio.co.uk/

Audionote Uk are a separate company.

SCIDB

 

you may also want to look at Border Patrol amps, Canary Audio, Berning ZH270 (not available new).

There are loads of good valve amp makers, but these would be a great place to start.. Manley, Art Audio etc

These are more likely to be in budget than Wavac or Kondo.

Price and performance aren't the bedfellows they should be though (IMO)

Speaker wise, your biggest problem is the small room. Personally I'd try and get the speakers right first, and then look at an amp that will drive them properly.

You will have to keep posting what you try and end up buying.

It's always interesting

 

I've got an Art Audio Quintet - it's an EL34-based tube amp. Sounds lovely. Speakers are Klipsch horns (which I think someone has recommended). They sound great, but they are very big and very ugly. Buy these and your wife WILL make you sleep in the shed.

On a brighter note, I've heard Living Voice speakers sound wonderful on the end of several kind of valve amp. And they're not black and rather attractive:

http://www.livingvoice.co.uk/

You can get LVs from Definitive Audio (who I can recommend highly), as they make them. They'll also probably have used examples which I imagine they would offer a warranty on. It's well worth popping down to Nottingham for a listen.

 

Sound advise from Bottleneck, as to Living Voice speakers, they are rear ported designs and hence not ideal for use close to a rear wall.

I would be very tempted to have a look at the Zu Druid's - causing quite a stir at the moment. Whatever you decide, you absolutely must dem the speakers in your room.

good luck philip

 

WLM also make some utterly gorgeous looking high efficiency speakers called the Diva (standmount or floorstander).

 

David - the increase in sound quality as price increases is far from linear. In fact there are diminishing marginal returns after 2k and more so after around 4k. I haven't done any measurements to back this up, just a feel for it after having listened to lots of kit.

I havn't any real experience of the really expensive stuff - so speakers in the 25k plus range. There may well be a step change in sound quality at that level.

Also there can be significant differences in quality of kit costing approximately the same. A recent study I saw in the papers claimed that peoples enjoyments of goods increased if they knew it cost more even if the product was esentially the same as a cheaper product.......

So, its a minefield out there......

I would save some of my budget for room treatments as the room can have a profound impact on the sound. I would say as a minimum a thick carpet or rug for the floor and bass traps for the corners. Then if your listening position will also be against a wall, an absorption panel for the back wall.

 

The moment will pass.

 

Markus, I haven't heard the Zu Druid's, would you care to elaborate?

cheers philip

 

No, sorry David, according to my power law method, an increase in cost from £2000 to £8000 will only be 60.2% better all other things being equal and as a first approximation

 

15 x 11 isn't very big..

maybe a new thread on great speakers for a small room?

(might be worth trying to get this side of things right before the amp)

You might want to add to the shortlist -

Proac 1sc
Harbeth Monitor 30
Merlin VSM
Wilson Discovery

All very different. Do you know them, and what else were you looking at?

 

I'd give my right arm for a room that big

Revel M22 & F32 work well right up against a back wall - the M22 is about the only speaker I've had where I didn't think the lack of room was ruining everything. Unfortuantley you should forget using them with low or even mid power valve amps.

 

I've seen a pair at Definitive Audio in Notts

http://www.definitiveaudio.co.uk/definitive-stuff.html

Also lots of nice Canary amps, which I think you should consider. You definately get your Porsche box-man-ship. Sound quality is pretty good too with Canary.

Uncle P .. you should check out the 'zeus' power amp that def. have in used at £3k.... reckon this one could handle the Revel's

225w p/ch..... http://www.savantaudio.com/razeus.html

 

oh yeah, I remember those now. They ARE pretty.

http://6moons.com/audioreviews/wlm/divamonitor.html

kind of like an attractive tannoy.