Turntables (Again)

I'm looking to benefit from the knowledge of forum members to suggest a turntable to complement my existing setup (RCD-02/RA-02/Quad 11Ls). I had been looking at a Systemdek IIX 900, but that unfortunately sold the day before I went to buy it. The reason I delayed on my decision to buy was that there was the possibility of picking up a vintage LP12 for a reasonable price. However it's been well over a month now since I registered my interest and the shop still can't tell me if it's up for sale (to be honest I'm sure they're sick of me checking on what's happening every couple of weeks).

So to cut a long story short, I'm looking for recommendations/suggestions for a turntable up to the value of £350 - 400. I'm more than happy to look at the secondhand market as there are some real bargains to be had. And ideally I'd like something that would survive a couple of upgrades.

So far some of the decks I've seen on the market are various Systemdeks, Manticore Mantras, LP12's, Regas, Projects etc.

Any suggestions/advice would be welcome.

BL21DE3

 

I understand that Rega 25 TTs are being sold off for 400 quid or less to make space on dealer shelves for the new generation P5 and P7 TTs.
Sounds like a bargain to me.

 

www.moorgate.demon.co.uk is the link if you're after one of those cheap P25's.

 

Secondhand LP12s are certainly plentiful, but prices seem high ATM on the usual sites. LP12s are not the bargain they used to be, unless you look hard.

For £400 the P25, as mentioned, would be a fine choice. You'd need a cart as well, of course.

-- Ian

 

Well thanks for the replies so far guys. Just out of interest what cartridge would be a good match for the P25, and more importantly what sort of price would I be looking to pay for one? The offer is certainly tempting, but the added costs of delivery and a cartridge detract from its appeal slightly.

BL21DE3

 

Especially when the 5/7's look like Kinder Egg rubbish! Eeeugh. I'll keep my Planar 3 any day of the week over them - whether they sound better or not.

Dynavector 10x5 + mid range Pxx = lurvely - on a P25 it should rock. Ortofon 540s work well as well

 

Assuming the phono stage in your amp is MM, you'll need either an MM cartridge or high-output MC. At the cheaper end of the market, I wouldn't bother with MC.

I'd agree with Dom, something from the Ortofon 500 range, or one of the cheaper Goldrings. Nothing much wrong with either. No need to speed a fortune on a cart at this stage, although the arm in a P25 (RB600) is certainly good enough to reveal cartridge improvements if you fancy spending more later on.

Even if you buy something secondhand that includes a cart, you should really budget to replace it. I wouldn't use the cart that comes on a secondhand deck, even if it's from a dealer - you simply don't really know what sort of condition it's in.

-- Ian

 

Well, thanks for all the info guys. I'm now the proud owner of a P25 turntable in rosewood (the last P25 they had). Now all I have to do is await delivery and choose a cartridge to partner with it, any advice for the best prices? Thanks again for the advice.

BL21DE3

 

Re MM budget(ish) carts

Second thumbs up on the Ortofon range. Prior to my current Shure I had an Ortofon 530 (about £100) and it was a fine cart - if the 540 (about £140) is a case of more of the same but better then it'll be good too - even the 510 (about £35) wasn't bad for not a lot of cash - I had one of those too as my starter cart on my return to vinyl.

Goomer had a lot of good to say about the Goldring 1042 when he had one (about £140 I believe). I've not heard the Goldring but hearsay suggests the Goldring is a bit more exciting than the Ortofon and the Ortofon a little more laid back.

Nice thing about both the Ortofon 5x0 range and the Goldring 1xx2 ranges are that you can buy the bottom of the range and then upgrade later by dint of buying the better stylus. The cart bodies are standard for each range. Mantra Audio always have good prices on both ranges (and others) and offer exchange schemes on many carts.

MM carts second hand aren't as risky as MCs, as you can usually replace the stylus should you need to. For example - years ago I had an Ortofon VMS20E mkII. You could probably pick one of these up 2nd hand for £15 and a new stylus for about the same ... and that was a humdinger which if memory serves wouldn't be shamed by modern carts.

Another option sometimes discussed over on the vinyl asylum is to buy a 2nd hand Shure V15III (legendary cart of 70s yore nb. NOT the V15IV) and replace the stylus with a new Microridge (MR) stylus from Shure. You might get an old cart for £30 or so and although the MR stylus retails at over £100, Shure have an exchange scheme which will get you a new one for $50 (cheapo cheapo at todays exchange rate).

The resulting setup will according to many of the guys over there give the latest V15VxMR (£350 or so) a run for its money and the VxMR really is a little corker - I know - its what I'm running now and it was a definite big step over the Ortofon 530 with the added advantage of making silk purses out of sows ears when it comes to records which haven't necessarily been given the love they deserve.

Of course much of this is hearsay, but given the near impossibility of demoing carts most of what you'll hear is.

 

Now there's someone who doesn't hang about!

Good choice, nice deck, looks great too.

-- Ian

 

Quote:

Now there's someone who doesn't hang about!

I think the fact that the local Rega stockist thought £500 was a bargain for a P25 and it was the last one Moorgate had in stock at the £399 price just helped me to make the decision .

 

I would 100% back uncle ants comments on the Shure,the Rega will sing it's heart out with this cartridge,the model to get is the V15mkIII,it's the best version,a bit fiddly to fit,but well worth it,believe me it will slaughter the Goldrings pure and simple,they just don't compare, I had the 1042, find on on E-bay,it will be one of the best upgrades you make for silly money.

Also later try the origin Live mod,improves bass definition and timing.

 

Thanks for the info on cartridges guys. I've had a quick squint on Ebay, but there's currently only one Shure V15 MkIII up there with 5 days to go. Unless I buy one attached to an old deck and dispose of the deck, always an option. But since I'm an impatient person I'll probably check round the local dealers/online for an Ortofon/Goldring and keep my eye on the Shure option.

Cheers,
BL21DE3

 

Hi

I used to have the Goldring 1042 and it is a good cartridge but have upgraded to the Dynavector VX because it is more musical. Les at Walrus in Central London is always good for advice on cartridges. At the end of the day all of the cartridges that have been recommended are good but are horse for courses. Don;t overlook what you might be plugging an MC into though. Budget for a separate MC pre-amp and I agree with whoever said don't get a cheap MC.

Dominic

 

My experience (caveat, I'm a relative novice and cack-handed) is that it is much easier to set up a smaller, lighter cart on the Rega arm than a larger, heavier one.
I moved from a Denon 103 to a DV Karat 17D-II and it was way easier to set the 5.xgm Karat up than the 8.5gm Denon. With 8.5gm the standard Rega weight is very near the the back of the stub, with the Karat is in the middle and micro adjustments are easier, too. The RB600 / DV combi seems to track much better now (obviously the DV is in a different league to the Denon). Putting a heavier weight on the back would be the best solution for a heavier cart IMO.
But I do wonder if that doesn't compromise performance in some other way. A heavier weight doesn't seem to be what Roy Gandy is thinking of when he designs these arms...
The Denon DL110 is frequently recommended over on PFM as a high-quality, high-output (1.6mV), budget MC cart.

 

The Ortofon 530 and 540 aren't even in the same class. I have a 530 on my bedroom NAD533 (was on the Planar 3 until I got my now-defunct Dynavector), and a 540 on the Planar 3 now. The 540 MURDERS the 530 in every way - better tracking, better dynamics, cleaner end-of-side, and less crackles.

And this is also based on what I remember the 530 sounding like on the Planar 3, not just comparing a lesser deck/arm against its big brother deck/arm.

YOU ARE A LUCKY SOD on that Planar 25 - if you don't get on with it per se, I'll offer you a trade on my Planar 3/RB300/Ort 540 (with some cash!) - somehow I don't think you'll bite though - he he!

 

Nice one, BL21DE3 - I reckon it'll be right lovely too. Not really much to add about cartridges really, other than to say that I've owned the Goldring 1042 and it is indeed a fine cartridge for the money. I've also owned the Shure V15III and would thoroughly recommend this option if you can find one for the right price - if I had to choose between the 1042 and the V15III, I would definitely pick the V15, though.

If you opt for one of the Ortofons I would recommend searching ebay Germany for the seller 'vellbergaudio', as he often has these at about half what you'd pay for one in the UK, and is a very efficient and friendly seller - he got my Kontrapunkt to me before he even had the cash, and I don't think you can ask for more than that(other than not having to pay at all, obviously). There is also a guy in Japan who sells via ebay and very low prices.

Anyway, have fun with your new deck and I hope it lasts you many years to come.

Goomer.

 

The one on ebay is NOS which is very good news, but as it has no stylus, when you get it you'll have to send the cart itself to Shure to qualify for the exchange. That said it'd probably be worth it. Maybe you should get a budget cart to get you going and go with the Shure thing as well. If you didn't like it after all that, you would probably make your money back and more for a NOS v15 with a new MR stylus if you sold it again on ebay.

PS. Dom is most likely right about the 540 - I've never heard one. All I was saying was the 530 wasn't bad in itself and was assuming the 540 would be better.

PPS. I still have it if you are interested - only a couple of hundred hours on it and looked after - also have an unused 510 stylus as well that I could chuck in. Make me an offer if interested If it was me though I'd be straight out to my local dealer to buy a new cart - I couldn't bare to have a nice new shiny deck sitting there taunting me but no way of playing it

 

Thanks for the info guys. Uncle Ants, the deck arrives tomorrow so I'm off to the local dealers this afternoon to see what's on offer. Though I reckon I'll probably end up with either a 540 or 1042 as they seem to be the best options. The only thing I'm concerned about is the actual fitting of the cartridge. I see that Rega recommend having it fitted by a qualified dealer. How hard is it to mount a cartridge yourself? I'm just paranoid about destroying my deck before it's even been near any vinyl.

 

Not too hard, although if you're buying a cartridge brand new from a hifi dealer then I would expect them to include fitting it in the price.