Upgrading CD

Hi

Just for the record I'm new here so be easy please. I run a fairly decent system and Naim CDI, 82 135s ATC50s and have been on the lookout for a CD upgrade. I went to a dealer in Oxford and he played me not a CD but a device which connects to the CD player and preamp. It works in the analogue line. The device is made by whest audio. Has anyone heard it or of it?
Anyway, it really only took about 10sec when I noticed the hugh upgrade. We also compared the combination to upgrading to a more expensive player but no way was that better. I since seen the unit in the mags but no review yet. Can anyone shed some light? I going in for another listen this weekend. Their website although in need of help does explain a bit about the product.

cheers

rob.

 

£895 for a little box between CDP and pre-amp !

IMO, paying £895 to paper over the cracks [for want of a better phrase] is LUDICROUS.

You could have an entirely new mains/spur setup and still have some money left over for new music.

personally, I'd give it a miss. It may work but £895 ?

Maybe try and assess exactly what it is that lets your system down and take it from there. And for tht money, get a home demo .

 

With my love of all oleaginous fluid substances of legless reptilian origin, I had to see this. I quote:

Whest Audio dap-10
The Whest Audio dap-10 is an exciting new component, that's totally original and will probably change the way you think about the digital signal chain.


Whest Audio have been working on this project for over four years, and the design came out of research into why CDs, even when played back on the best equipment, failed to satisfy some listeners in terms of realism, the ability of a recording to suspend disbelief and convince you that your are in the presence of the artist. This research extended up into the ultrasonic frequencies, and it was here the breakthrough was made.


Effectively what were detected were 'ghost signals'; ultra high frequency signals which existed over 35 kHz. "We can't hear that high?" you may say, but these signals then produce harmonics which extend down into the audio band. What was discovered was that these signals were delayed from the original recording, therefore the harmonics extending down were also delayed. What the dap-10 does is realign these signals via a circuit which has been used previously in high speed signal processing equipment in laboratories, therefore correcting this misalignment and bringing these signals in phase with the signal in the audio band. This is all done in the analogue domain, there is no digital manipulation of the signal within the dap-10. Already many CD players use several stages of circuitry after the DAC to allow the CD player to work with numerous cable types and pre amp loadings, what the dap-10 has been designed to do is to act as just another output stage, but with it's own enclosure and power supply.


When you insert the dap-10 between your CD player and amp, or DAC and amp, you will hear no alteration in the tonal balance of the sound, and you will hear no gain in the signal level. What you will hear will be an enhanced sense of air and clarity in the high frequencies, greater transparency throughout the midrange, improved low frequency separation and definition, improved dynamics and a larger, more focussed soundstage. In short all of the things you like about you CD player, but greatly enhanced.


During initial listening it was noted that the sound of CD with the dap-10 was much like listening to SACD or a stereo DVD-Audio disc. What the dap-10 brings are the advantages of these new, high resolution formats, but without having to buy a new player and new recordings, which will quickly exceed the price of the dap-10.


There is also a dap-10/AV designed for universal players and DVD players. If you have one of these universal players and would like to improve the sound still further, the dap-10/AV is highly effective, and not just on high-end players. We've heard this on the new sub £300 pioneer player and were astonished at how CD and SACD sounded with the dap-10/AV in place. The dap-10 could well be the missing link to high-end digital without the need to re-buy their entire music collection, again!

Key Features:

Housed in a none ferrous alloy case.
Has no effect on the audio band between
0 Hz and 34.99 kHz
Allows the sonic signature of the source through with uncoloured signal alignment.
Aligns, not removes, the 'Audio Ghosts' above 35 kHz
Immediate improvement in any system.
Recommended Retail Price

dap-10 (Standard) £895.00
dap-10AV (Audio Visual) £895.00

A question: where do "35kHz ghost signals" come from in a CD player? I thought the Nyquist business limits the frequency to half the sampling rate, i.e., around 22kHz. Or am I not understanding something (not for the first time)?

(P.S. And does this mean that the lack of frequency response, long touted by analogue enthusiasts as a failing of CD, is not actually true?)

 

the mains thing I've done, I know it works because I heard it.
has anyone else heard it. don't mind the bashing but it isn't really constuctive. as for the technology, some people even on this forum i bet have spent twice that amount on interconnects.

robM

 

Interconnects? Not me!!! (I actually tried to do without any, but the signal refuses to jump from the CD to the amp, rotten thing).

Just don't forget the magic words, Rob, "it works for me" . It may not work for anyone else. Certainly interconnects, equipment supports of any kind, power cables and demagnetising discs (I think that's all) don't work for me. And I really would like to hear a technical explanation of these ghost frequencies, which I would have thought could not possibly have been there in the first place in order to be removed.

 

Rob

No offence but first postings recommending new products from unheard of companies bring out the cynic in us!

Could you let us know what your tie in is with this company?

 

Rob, if you think it's beneficial to your system and worth the outlay, then by all means, buy it.

I would however recommend you try it at home with your equipment and your music.

It may appear to beneficial to start with but could, in the end, just turn out to be different; not better or worse.

It will be interesting to hear how you get on. Keep us posted .

 

no link to the company but quite friendly with the dealer. the way i see it for me to upgrade the cd player i'm looking at a 2-4K upgrade, preamp the same speakers i'll keep stands i'll keep so £900 isn't so bad if it is a worthwhile improvement. yes i'll take your advise and do a home dem. where else is there to go for less then 2K? the secondhand market?

rob

 

But Rob, what exactly is it that you don't like about your current system ?

Have you heard another and wished yours sounded like that or are you just itching for an upgrade ?

 

the dreaded itch. I know from past experience that it is THE most
dangerous virus to hit music/ hifi/ lovers. it's either an upgrade or blow it on a 50mm summicron for the leica and some CDs and Nandos

 

Just shove 2 bybee's in the digital line, does the same if not better, and at about 1/4 the price, if one was being a cynic.
Tones, can you send a picture of your good self mate, we want to use it on a motivational poster in the oFFice, so when we come in, forst thing, we know what we're striving for, cheers Tones, the yonger

 

If you'll pay for the busted lens, yes, certainly! But dare I ask what exactly it is you're striving for? Or don't I want to know?

 

Quote :Just shove 2 bybee's in the digital line, does the same if not better, and at about 1/4 the price, if one was being a cynic

mr wadia

my CDI doesn't have a digital line, and what is a bybee?

 

must have a digital line
unless you buy analogue recorded CD's

 

tones

i suppose i want more. the system sounds very good, fairly dynamic, pretty well detailed very nice mid band but the whole could be 'more alive' more dynamic more detailed just plain MORE.
I was half considering going to a used pair of ATC50a and ditching the 135s, but can't find a nice pair for the price and anyway i'm still looking at a 3-4k upgrade. have you ever been at a level with your system where you thought 'yeh it's really good' but i want to go further. well i'm that man.

rob

 

penance

do you mean an analogue line for the CD player or a digital output because I don't have a dig out.

rob

 

IT's a naim system oh er...............

 

Go on Tones, don't beat around the bush, we all know "Snake Oil" when we see it.

To be fair, whilst I have no doubt that it might make the CDI an almost palletable machine, surely there are better ways to spend the money. I also can't see how it can achieve reconstruction of the signals at 35Khz etc, let alone manage to to any harmonic manipulation with them.

Even if it can, you're still listening to the same CDP, with what amounts to a tone manipulation (however sophisticated it may be) in the way.

Still I've never heard one, so I shouldn't let my closed mind stand in the way.

Cheers

 

Naim NAP 135s are nowhere near powerful enough (@ 75 wpc IIRC) to drive ATC 50s passively.

 

Those Whest Audio products have been mentioned in the various Hifi rags in recent months. Love to know what's inside those rather expensive boxes. I suspect nothing more than a simple analogue filter...

Michael.