Upgrading from passive to active

Ok sorry I did mention floors before but then I went on about the walls. But yes it does make a problem. When I get my own flat I can get it just how I want it. I cant rip up the baords in a rented flat so I just have to put up with it.

I spent more like 15 - its all second hand except for the deck - where I got a very good price.

 

Only tenson and I were there bub. If you come and take a listen then your comments will be worth something.

 

Why is it so important to you? It doesn't matter so long as you are happy, surely?

 

Not meaning to speak for Thorsten but actuallyI think he attributes the edge to un-even off-axis polar responce far more than the amps.

I have to agree with BBV, Bryston amps can be as soft and gentle as a kitty cat when the music is supposed to be that way.

My personal preference is half way between Thorstens taste and what BBV currently has. While Thorsten likes to attenuate the off-axis response quite a lot from the speaker itself, I prefer to keep it there but to control it within the room so as to keep a nice live sound but also gain the control and all else that comes with. Both Thorsten and I agree that it is important to have an even off-axis response though. From what he tells me the PMC's are not too great in this respect. Certainly no worse than MANY other speakers though.

BBV, when talking about room reflections and reverberant fields 'large' room really means 'massive'! Anything below 12,000 cubic feet is defined as a 'small' room by ITU.
If the off-axis sound from the speaker has a smooth frequency response and all reflected sound has to travel over about 8m before it reaches the listener and is reasonably attenuated then this would be about ideal for critical listening. This is where diffusors help in a ‘normal’ sized listening room.

 

Absolutely - but the purpose of this thread is to detail what Tenson and I found and I am both elaborating and preventing certain parties from distorting the findings. Please note that tenson is also doing the same to put things in the proper proportion and context.

I never claimed my system is perfect - it isnt - and the events of this w/e showed one area in particular that requires my immediate attention.

Not sure I grasp what you are saying yet tenson. If I clap my hands the room rings. Maybe reverberation is the wrong word but I still want to stop it

 

I guess a sense of humour helps in these circumstances.

 

Of course - its good news. I have discovered an opportunity to make a big improvement. Even with the existing pre it still sounds pretty good, the the django is pretty clearly a big step up - maybe to the very best that is available.

Sadly my humour doesnt come accross on forums. If only you knew .

The balance currently is slightly too bright - but still much less bright and hard than atc scm100a, to put things into context.

 

Hi,

You miss my point...

Your living room, just as mine is in acoustic terms a small enclosed place.

One of my "eyeopening" experiences happened whe we demoed at a meeting of the london DIY club a very early precursor of the Transparence at a friends place. A large, almost bare room, quite live, but not to a degree to make the room unpleasant to be in.

Playing music through expensive, supposedly excellent speakers of high cost and with all sorts of unique features ("Emit" Ribbon tweeters included) sounded completely abysimal. Horrendous.

Playing it via a pair of Speakers that should not even work according to standard opinions and views sounded just fine, in certain aspects a lot better than most systems and that via a very unsophisticated speakers, using a pair of ultra cheap 8" Dual Cone drivers from Maplin and sheets of MDF.

One of the speakers was very directional and thus failed to produce the "room sound" which make the other highly objectionable....

I found that Bryston Amplifier sound etched and edgy even where the recording is not, to a larger degree than Krell ones, which in turn make my ears and head hurt and that with completely unoffensive 1950' and '60's eara Jazz recordings!

Note, all that, to MY ears and hearing, plus MY prejudices.

Ciao T

 

Bizarre - I cant listen to krell for the same reason. Yet bryston suits me fine.

I still dont get your point.

 

PMC monitors don't have a great off axis response - it's assumed that they will be used in an acousically treated enviroment.

You are not doing so.

Thorsten prefers speakers that do not interact with the room. Tenson (and I) prefer to treat the room and have good off axis response (Revel is a good example).

Keep up.

 

lol this is all quite amusing

 

Hi,

I can only note what I heard, maybe the design and sound changed notably in the last maybe 10-15 Years? The stuff I heard was already a few years old then and it is a good while ago.

Ciao T

 

Ahh... well yes it has. Its changed a lot.

 

Sm - pmc monitors not bryston. The pmcs are quite directional. As I said when I get a permanant residence of my own I will treat the room.

Thorsten - 10-15 years ago the brystons were the nrb type. Frankly they were typical studio muscle amps and I didnt like them. The st variant was a completely different beast and the pmc modified versions of the sst range are better again. Compared with the ones you heard its a different amp entirely. Same goes for the pmcs. The passive bb5s you heard had the original passive tweeter and the atc midrange. The current range has new tweeters and the pmc mid, and the actives have a better tweeter than the passive, though the current passive tweeter is still much better than the original tweeter.

 

And guess what, they still sound hard and bright!!!

 

No the room adds some brightness as does my current pre. With those two factors sorted they will be neutral after fiddling with the crossovers.

 

Of course.

 

Well, I haven't heard your system, but the comments on it lead me to believe that your room isn't all that great. I've heard "good" gear set up in appalling rooms before, and it's not nice.

 

Hi,

I must insist on a correction. Gear that "sounds bad" when the room "is bad" is simply bad gear. No two ways about it, no debate about it. Therefore, it's gear that's "not nice".

If you as manufacturer cannot make sure your gear works in perfectly reasonably surroundings for living spaces then maybe you should include a warning to not use them in such and con fine their use to well padded cells and anechonic torture chambers.

Of course, you will no doubt continue to act as apologist for such designs.

L8er T

 

I wasn't really talking to you.

I heard some quite big Spendor speakers in a room which measured 7 feet by 12. OK, it's an extreme example, but it was rather tiring.

Were you always like this, Thorsten, or did you have a tough childhood?