Very underwelmed vy TT bass

I can't believe how long it's taken me, but I've realised the bass coming from my Ariston Q deck is well, not there. Well it is , but in very small quantity, there's NO slam or thud, and this is on all albums (whether it's bob marley or grateful dead).
Now I know vinyl is meant to have the upper hand in the LF area (well all areas), but comparing it to a standin CDP (old technics cheapo) it's put to shame, Bob can have the window's rattling through the 15" Tannoy's. So I know this is not meant to be the case.
Cartridge is an Ortofon OM10, meant to be low hours (<100), stylus checked with a 10x glass and is fine, alignment set using a standard protractor off this site, VTF at 1bout 1.9g (haven't got a gauge, using the increments on the arm). VTA - arm looks flat but haven't measured.
Phono stage - a DIY (Rod Elliot of ESP, project p06), which is a HUGE upgrade in all areas over a project phonobox.
The TT is flat (checked with spirit level), on it's own wall mounted shelf.

So, would someone please be able to give me some suggestions as to what might be up please?

Thanks
Harry

 

here a few suggestions.........

try a small puck or clamp on the record ....the original revolver pig would work

place the q-deck on a wall shelf

get a stylus gauge..

fit a felt mat or achromat .....can't remember what the q-deck came with but you will need to adjust the arm height if you add a mat .....A cheap solution would to get some of that non slip mat used for trays or work tops and cut out to fit the platter.

you must remember that the q-deck was strictly a budget offering from Ariston....so don't expect too much

if you see a thorens td160 bc or super snap it up ...it will be streets a head of the q-deck [once set up!]

 

ok, i'll try a clamp.
It's on a wall shelf.
I'll try a stylus gauge (was on the list)
It's got a standard rubber matt on it. There's a platter matter on ebay, any good? Otheriwse I'll try a felt. Not sure I've come across that non slip stuff, do you know a genereic name for it?
I know the Q deck isn't top notch, I've actually got a replacement. My next audio project is to replinth and rearm a Lenco GL75 (got it already). I was going to leave it a while while I did other things, but now I might fast track it.
I was just a bit flumoxed because I reckon it's not a subtle lack, it's a big fat whopping lack. And everything else seems in order. But I'll give those mods a go.
Thanks

 

Could just be that the TT does better, tighter bass, so apparently there's less of it. Alternatively have you played with the loadings on the cart, I don't know the OM10, could that be the problem? Get the other TT up and running before you try anything else, then you'll have some idea where your issues lie.

 

I think that I'd check the turntable earthing. I know I had this problem myself when the earth wire snapped at its little terminal on the TT chassis. The result was a muddied bass. I suppose the connections to the cartridge are as they should be so that there are no phase anomalies. I find the bass from my TT is immediately impressive; then I think its too much; then I settle back and relive the glorious late sixties to mid seventies, Paul Simon etc etc ....

 

I'm sure this isn't it, I can't belive it's meant to be this light.

I'm not sure what you mean here... I certainly haven't done anythig to it.

Only problem is it's going to take a lot of work - make plinth (hasn't even got the old one), make arm board, overhall arm (SAU-2).
I was wanting to at least have the Q deck as an enjoyable first stage. I must admit as soon as the frequencies increase - treble guitar, voices etc. it's a hell of a lot sweeter and less harsh than all the other sources, so I really want it working properly.
Is the Q deck really this bad, shall I just give up on it? Or Could it be the cartridge, maybe it had an accident or there's something that doesn't mach about it.
I've been thinking about an AT110, could you comment on how this would suit?
Thanks

 

damnit I beat your second reply. OK I'll have a good look at earth wires. I remember hearing someone say this could give vaguely similar symptoms, and I haven't actually checked the. Never touched the wiring to the cart so I assume it's right. Will have a look

 

What I meant was just check that your phono stage is set at 47kOhm, if the load it presents to the cart is wrong, it could lead to the sound being disappointing.

 

can I do that by putting an ohmeter across the input + and -? I bought it as a PCB and made it up, but I could contact the supplier. I've recently tried the project phonobox and same problem, they couldn't both be wrong. I would have thought this test indicated the phonostage was out of the equation

 

Hmm. I can't help much, but it does rather sound as if there is a fundamental issue here rather than something a bit of adjustment or tweakery will sort.

OM10 is a decent enough cartridge for the money and not noticably lacking in bass.

Same problem with a Phonobox, so as you point out that's not likely to be it.

Double check VTF, make sure the VTA is approximately right and if its still no good, I guess the simplest conclusion might be that the Q deck is a bit pants ...

one last thought, check that you have wired the cartridge up correctly and not out of phase. Out of phase can sound a bit strange and diffuse, also will knock out the bass to some extent.

 

Always wondered, what's the general way of checking VTA when there is no adjustment?
Is the best way of checking correct wiring just trial and error? The thing is, I don't think any other areas are really lacking. I suppose the Q deck being not up to the task is becoming not unlikely.

 

My first bet is that you've got the cart wired out of phase. Classic symptom - no bass.
second it may be that the budget ariston is just not up your street and you need a better turntable.

 

Ok

so you on a shelf .....then hopefully thats not effected by footfall.

you can set the cart by ear .....

turn the counter weight back [away from the gimble] till the arm balances ...set the front disc on the counter weight to zero then turn both till you have dialed in say 1.5g then have a listen ...if you are below the correct weight it will sound lightweight! add an increament and relisten ...there will come a point where it will start to sound dull thats too much weight so dial back till it sounds best .....I recently did this for an om10 so its not impossible ..on checking I was 0.2g off the correct value .

check the belt for wear...but I would not imagine thats a problem

with the belt off spin the platter and listen to the bearing ...best method is with a stethescope ..but a screw driver placed point first on the plinth and the handle in your ear !....if its silent you don't have any problems ..if its noisy you need to check the lub of the bearing. I can't remember how they did it on the Q.

hold the arm by the end and gently feel for any play in the bearings....

As pointed out double and triple check the connections to the diy phono and then through the phono stage ...to be certain you've not transposed a connection ..its easy done.

As I pointed out ...this was Ariston lowest model ...and though the one I heard sound damn good for the money ...it is a budget deck and will strugle if compared with the td160 or regas...

 

right, they're on the list. I know the bearing is very slightly noisy. I have oiled it, tried a number of different thickness motor oils, and went with the quietest. I can't really pick it up through the speakers when it's playing, and it couldn't be removing stuff could it?
There's no play in the beraings, checked this when I got it.
I'll have a good look at all connections, but it's mostly pretty tidy.
But maybe I am being too harsh, I'm not a bass head and I could live with it fine, if a little more was just there.
Just need to get home now, bloody exams!

 

To be fair I think this could only be your issue if it was grossly out. If eyeballing it suggests the arm is parallel with the top of the record, I'd dismiss it as a potential issue.

I use a card with some parallel lines on it to give me an indication.

If there is no adjustment and you wanted to change VTA, then your options are a) shims under the arm mount b)shims between cartridge and headshell c) varying thickness of slipmat d) some combination of the above