Vinyl FAQ

There are lots of vinyl questions, could we make a sticky out of good turntables, arms, cartridges, phonostages, and maybe a set up guide for neophytes?

If Dean has time, maybe he could provide a brief survey of TTs?, actually, I think he has done, maybe we could pool all the bits together for this?.

 

Good shout that.

 

Hi,

There are a lot of questions to do with turntables. Best way may be to answer them when asked about.

I did put together a few pieces on a few pointer on turntables some time ago on the Hifi Choice site.

I have copied below. A lot of this stuff are general pointers & ideas.

Hi

Here are some questions & answers to various aspects of turntables and turntable design. There are also a few pointers that will give an insight to the workings of turntables.

My Thanks to Sid&Coke, GTM, Leonard Small, Lawrie, JJ, Lillolee, Timbo & Mean Mr Valvoline for the questions and answers.



Q

hi guys

hmmm... i'm with evilD on this one... thinking of getting a turntable because it sounds like buckets of fun but i have no clue whatsoever about turntables... what's the difference between a normal turntable and a 'suspended' one... and is a suspended TT to complicated for a beginner?

JJ

A

Hi JJ

As you can see turntables can be fun. If you are after a turntable you can pick up a quality item. It depends how deep you want to go & how much you what to pay. There are many 2nd hand items worth looking at.

A turntable needs to do a number of things. Here are some of them.

1. A turntable needs to rotate precisely at the right speed.

2. It needs to offer good support for the tonearm & cartridge.

3. It needs to have a drive function that can overcome groove drag created between the stylus & the vinyl

4. It has to offer isolation from it's surroundings.

The better the turntable the better it does all the above. This is where the different turntable designs come in.

Most turntables follow 3 formats.

A.) A direct drive motor with platter bearing mounted on a solid plinth. ( e.g.Technics SL1200- Dj turntables)

B) a belt drive motor & platter on a solid plinth. (e.g. Rega Plannar 2 & 3). The motor is bolted to the plinth & a belt connects the motor to the platter. Also the bearing in bolted to the plinth

c) A decoupled Sub chassis with belt drive system. (e.g. Systendek II & Linn lp12). The motor is bolted to the plinth & a belt connects the motor to the platter. The platter & bearing are bolted to a sub chassis inside the turntable. This sub chassis is connected to the armboard which holds the tonearm & cartridge.. This sub chassis is damped & suspended by springs.


A) & B) can be cheaper to make and put together. C) can be more complex and more expensive. A lot of the turntables of note use methods B) & c). The ultimate quality will depend on the type & quality of components used to reduce the problems 1, 2, 3 & 4. Also how the basic designs are fine tuned to solve the problems.

There are some turntables which apply different ideas to the problems. (e.g. Townshend Rock & Roksan Xerxes)

Suspended turntable, depending on the design, can be straight forward to set up. There is some first hand balancing to make sure the tonearm & platter are level. On some decks, once this is done you don't need to do it again or not for along time. Solid plinth turntable are usually easier to get up & go.

JJ for starter decks you could look at solid plinth decks such as Rega Plannar 2 or 3 or cheaper Project turntables.
For suspended decks you can look at a Systemdek II as a good starter.

This ends my first lession on turntables. More later.


SCIDB


More thoughts on turntables.

Looking at the need to rotate at the correct speed & the need to overcome drag created from the stylus and the record

As mentioned earlier a turntable needs to rotate at a the right speed. It has to do correctly when the cartridge & arm are in the the groove. The shape of the groove will vary due the frequency and loudness content. As the groove changes (gets narrow) there are tendencies for the cartridge in the record to cause the turntable to slow. As the groove changes (gets wider) the turntable can speed up for a split second. What is needed is a system that will operate under the above conditions giving constant speed control.

There are many way to deal with this.

1. A platter that acts like a flywheel .

Here the platter needs good inertia. i.e. good resistance to change. A flywheel with good inertia, once set spinning, is very hard to stop. The platter needs to act like this flywheel. This can be done by having a heavy (high mass) platter. A good bearing is needed. A big diameter can help as well.
There are down sides to this. If you have a heavy platter the rest of the turntable needs to be able cope with this high mass. This includes the bearing and the suspension system. It's easier to do with a solid plinth design. In a lot of case having a giant diameter is impratical.
A high mass platter can store unwanted energy which can be picked up by the cartridge. This can be solved by using different material for the platter & looking at the shape.


2. A powerful and quiet motor.

A motor that is low noise and high torque help supply constant drive for the platter & record. Most motors are AC ones that run on 50hz mains. These are cheap and cheerful. By having a well designed supply the motor will run quieter and smoother & give a constant speed supply to the platter and putting less noise into turntable and platter.
The downside of this is the extra cost of the designed power supply. Also high torque motors cost more money


3. A quality bearing for the platter.

This is needed so that there is little resistance to get in the way of the rotating platter. The better the bearing the less resistance gets in the way & better the flywheel effect. Also less noise will travel into the platter and rest of the turntable.
The downside here is cost. Better bearings cost more money & need high standards of constructions.

The need for good support for the arm & cartridge & the ability to offer isolation from it's surroundings

The tonearm need to held steady as it allows the cartridge to track accross the record. For this to happen the tonearm needs to be isolated from the external surroundings. In a solid plinth design the tonearm is conected directly to the plinth. The material of the plinth (& feet) needs to have good isolation properties to stop vibrations getting into the arm. The plinth needs to stop the vibrations from the motor, platter, bearing, airbourne and from the ground.

The downside of this is you will need a well designed material for the plinth to do all this. This will cost money and careful design.

With a suspended turntable, the sub chassis offers a degree of isolation from it's surroundings. This is ususlly done using a coiled spring arrangement. The sub chassis will help keep the platter level with the tonearm as vibrations hit the turntable.

The downside of this is with the quality of the suspension, the materials of the sub chassis & the connection to the turntable. Also at certain frequencies the sub chassis will less stable. This will cause the tonearm to vibrated more than usual. This will happen when the system hits it's resonant frequency. A well designed unit will limit this effect.


As you can see to get a good turntable takes careful design. To make a better turntable you need to address a number of issues. The above only looks at a number of key area & hasn't covered everything.

Next I will look at how a lot of this is put into practice.

SCIDB

Q.

One aspect of design that has always puzzled me is why do manufacturers place the motor at an angle to the tone arm.

What I'm saying here is if the motor oscilates on its spindle and it is at an angle to the tone arm, the cartridge in the tone arm will be moving inside of the groove from side to side.

Surely if the motor was in line with the tone arm the movement would be more front back, probably lessening the detremental effect of the motor oscillations.

Voyd used a combination of 3 motors to over come this, whilst Russ Andres in his LP12 upgrade moves the motor in line.

Just my idle thoughts
_________________
Lilolee


A

As for the postion of the motor on turntables, I have been aware of a few companies who have changed the position of the motor. Pink Triangle did this on some of their decks. There was a Pink Linnk mod for the LP12 which included a change of motor postion & power supply upgrade.

I have thought about this some time ago. The reasons you have state are the ones that the people that use this method have come out with. It would also depend how you deal with the motor vibrations. If you can sink the energy away from the stylus it shouldn't be much of a problem. But it may be worth trying on an old turntable.

The voyd has 3 motors to get an increase of torque for the platter instead of using a flywheel effect from a heavy platter. The platter is acrylic which is fairly light and inert. The motors will produce more noise but the isolation is very good on the voyd.

SCIDB


Q.

Guys!

I have once again been casting an eye on turntables after I heard a few set-ups recently. However, before I get to the stage of auditioning TTs and then (maybe) purchasing one, I need some answers to a few questions & thoughts that I have.

Cartridges: what is the difference between moving-coil and moving magnet? Is one better sounding than the other. Are internal internal amp phono stages compatible with both?

Some thoughts:

Decks, Tonearms & Cartridges: Is the tonearm & cartridge more important than the TT deck or vice -versa? For example - would a high quality deck and cheap tonearm plus cheap cartridge sound better than a cheaper deck, high quality tonearm and high quality cartridge? What about a cheap deck, high quality tonearm plus cheap cartridge or a high quality deck, cheap tonearm and high quality cartridge? How would these fare?

By using the words 'high quality', I don't mean wallet-busters but rather top performers as not all top performers are wallet-busters IMO.

Although, the scenarios painted under 'some thoughts' above, may appear to be trivial especially to TT buffs, there is a method to my madness, and as a TT novice, your answers would help me understand a few things. Thanks guys!!




Enjoy the music!!

Lawrie


A.

lawrie...


ok first cartridges..

MC's are only really worth considering once you are looking at spending around £300 .. MC's below this (rough) price point are too compromised.. as MCs are more expensive to manufacture due to the nature/size of the coil in them. However, having said that .. low output MC's are in general terms better.. they have better phase response.. more extended frequency responses .. better transient responses.. and track better than MM's.. all of these attributes are basically because low output MC's have

a) lower moving mass
b) lower inductance

These properties generally lead to a more transparent/detail/musical sound than for MMs. High output MCs loose some/most of these advantages.

The TT itself is the foundation for the sound quality achievable..(a TT as a whole is a mechanical measuring device).. any resonances/susceptablity to vibration will be transmitted to the arm/platter.. leading to compromising the performance of the cartridge, (no matter how expensive the cartridge is). Of course the size of the problems will be the same no matter which cartridge you use.. so to an extent improving the cartridge quality will improve the sound untill you get to a cartridge which is capable of better resolution than the deck will allow due to all the resonances.. it is imparting on the cartridge.. so obviously this extra resolving power will be wasted on that deck.....

The arm plays it's own role in that it too adds resonances to the cartridge.. however it also has the role of alowing the mechanical energy from the cartridge to flow in to the deck .. away from the danger area.. but this has the effect of adding to the mechanical vibrations that the deck has to deal with.. a cheaper one will be less able to cope with this extra energy..so making the situation worse.

I would say that a High quality deck with cheap arm and high quality cart.. would sound significantly better than a cheap deck high quality arm and cheap cart... the cartridge and the deck are the actual generators of the high quality.. (the cart has the job of transforming the grooves in to sound and given the perfect platform the better cart will always sound the best - the TT has the job of keeping the cartridge free of distrubance and driving the grooves past the cart so that it can do it's job of conversion).. the arm really only needs to be resonance free so as not to impart any of it's own sound to the cartridge.. therefore it's the deck that is of formost importance.. with out it the cartridge can't perform.. the arm in real terms has about the same (or quite often less). .. of an impact on overall sound quality than the cartridge, though of course a very high quality cart is wasted in a cheap arm.. as the arm may not have the mechanical integrity to deal with the energy the cartridge is creating.. (remember better quality cartridge = more energy retrieval from the grooves).


hope that is of some help..

GTM

Hi


More on the subject.



MOVING COIL & MOVING MAGNETS CARTRIDGES

I agree with what GTM has stated about the moving coils & moving magnets. The more you spend the more chance it's a moving coil.

If we look at the job of the cartridge, we can look at why they can vary.

The job of the cartridge is to read the changes in the record groove which represents the original sound. It also has to convert this mechanical energy into an electrical signal which is then fed to the amp & then made to drive some loudspeaker.

The cartridge tracks the groove with the aid of a flexible mounted stylus. The movement of this stylus in relation to the cartridge body can then be used to generate an electrical signal. The stylus is a very small carefully shaped diamond mounted on a small rod or a tube called the cantilever.

At the end of the cantilever, which is inside the cartridge, we have a flexible mounting that allows the stylus/ cantilever assembly enough freedom of movement to follow the shape of the groove. At the back of the cantilever are the electrical generating elements. For a moving magnet there is magnet & for the moving coil a coil is attached to the cantilever.

The moving magnet cartridge has fixed coils surrounding the magnet. The movement of the magnet in the relation to the coils produces the electrical signal. With the moving coil cartridge, the coil on the cantilever is moved in relation to powerful fixed magnets to give the electrical signal.

With all this in mind, to make a top cartridge you need a body that is very stable. i.e. dosen't vibrate or vibrate much in the required frequency range. A wide range of materials have been used from different types of plastics, metals, woods and ceramics.

The electrical genterating assembly needs to be good. This include the fixing to the cartridge, the magnets & coils used.

The mounting of the cantilever in the cartridge needs thought & can use a wide range of materials.

The Stylus quality, size & shape has a lot to do with how it follows the groove changes. These can be shapes from spherical, elliptical, line contact and many more.

The cantilever has to be rigid enough to support the stylus & cartridge & only move when the stylus moves. It needs to be well damped.

All the above can predict the cost & qualityof your cartridge.

PHONO STAGES.

Years ago most amps/pre amps had a phono stage built in. Some had switchable moving coil/moving magnet. Others had just moving magnet. These days they are not as common in amps. Also the quality of the builtin phono stage could be hit and miss. Hence the market for stand alone phono stages.

The job of a phono stage is to provide equalisation of the electrical signal from the cartridge. A record is cut with loads of treble & a lot of bass cut so a speacial filter circuit (RIAA equalisation circuit) has to be used to cut the treble & boost the bass. The resultant gives a flat responce of a wide frequency range. This resultant is then ampilfied before being fed to the rest of the amp.

If the phono stage has to deal with moving coils cartridges. There may need to be an extra amplification stage at the input of the phonostage. This is due to the lower output of most moving coils.

Some phono stages are user switchable & some are factory switchable. Also some can be matched directly to the cartridge in question. The performance and price depends on the design, the components & the quality of the power suppiles .


DECKS, TONEARMS & CARTRIDGES

I covered a bit on turntable design in the sid thread. Here I look at the combinations. Again I agree with a lot of what GTM as Stated. A turntable is exposed to lot of vibration and resonances. Also these come from within the turntable itself.

The tonearm is connected to the deck & will pick these up. The arm will inturn add it's own vibration and resonances. This will effect the stabilty of the cartridge. The sound quality depends on the relationship between the movement of the stylus & the cartridge. As the stylus moves the cartridge needs to be stable. If the arm is vibrating then the cartridge is not held stable and the information is lost or corrupted.

A better turntable will hold the arm more stable & allow the arm to vibrate less & do it's job better. It will hold the cartridge more stable and you will get better info from the record.

If you have a better arm on the better turntable, the cartridge will be even more stable allow more info to be had of the record.

A better cartridge will add pick up a higher level of imformation.

For a cartridge to perform at it's potential it needs a quality turntable & quality arm.

If you had a high quality turntable & high quality cartridge & a low quality tonearm, the arm will be supported well be the deck. But the poor vibrations & performance of the arm will cloud the cartridge performance. The extra cost of the cartridge will be wasted. The resultant sound quality may be no better than the same setup with cheaper cartridge.

The way of thinking by a number of people is turntable, tonearm then Cartridge for importance. Linn help popularize this line of thinking with LP12. In the hayday they had a LP12 which cost more than a Ittock tonearm which cost more than the Asaka cartridge.

I would go for the Turntable quality, then arm Quality then cartridge quality route. Don't think that quality always goes up with price. I would go on the design of the items to define their quality.

For tonearms they need to provided a vibration free, rigid support for the cartridge. Also they need to be able to allow the cartridge to follow the groove spiral. The downside is that they do vibrate over the audio range. The vibrations can come from the cartridge, the turntable & airbourne Also the ultimate quality of the bearings can vary. The design, construction and materials involved all add to the sound quality. The better the tonearm the more it can handle any extra infomation from the cartridge & deal with the other vibrations.

I would go for the Turntable quality, then arm Quality then cartridge quality route. Don't think that quality always goes up with price. I would go on the design of the items to define their quality.


Lawrie

As for turntables the choose is quite big. You can buy new or 2nd hand. It depends how much you want to spend. You could start cheap & upgrade, like Sid. I would suggest you have a listen to a few turntable setups. (friends or dealers). This will give you a flavour of what can be achieved.

As for recommendations, I can supply more options later.

SCIDB

Quote:
GTM MC's are only really worth considering once you are looking at spending around £300

Dynavector do. The DV10X4 MK 2 at £199 and the DV 20 X at £299 are well worth investigating. And you won't need an MC gain stage.
Sid and Coke I agree about the perceived money cost of the LP12. Just think a new one of those without arm is in excess of £1000. A joke if you ask me, when you compare it to the engineering in a Gyrodeck.
_________________
Lilolee

OK!

I will keep this brief.

If funds were limited I would get..

1) A High output MC cartidge or Moving Iron cartridge. This will enable you to use a MM input of a phono stage reducing the gain necessary which in turn reduces background noise and cost of buying a MC compatable phono stage. I would reccomend the Dynavectors Lilo mentioned above, or an Ortofohn MC15 super II if funds are more limited. If you're feeling flush Benz glider II, or cartridge man cartridges are all nice.

2) A rega RB250 is fine for now. You can always mod it later.
3) Personally I'd go for a Nott. Analogue interspace. A high end deck at a midfi price.

Finally, I would take my amp to the audition.. if you find your internal phono stage is pants... then the choice is massive. If you like the valve sound and youre on a budget - well I picked up a second hand MC/MM EAR 834P for £190. Im sure you could get the MM only for ballpark £175. Project do one for around £50 if really pushed.


Hope that is of help.
Basically, I would get the most basic deck that I would be happy with in the long term, and splash the rest onthe phono stage and cartridge..


Cheers
Chris

Suspension, eh?
Broadly, there's 2 schools of thought on this...
There's the suspended sub-chassis types - where the platter and armboard are isolated from the motor (and possibly bearing) by a suspension system. This could be anything from a few springs (Linn etc) to something that resembles a car shock absorber (SME 20, Kuzma Reference etc). The idea is that sources of noise, or rumble, don't transmit that to the platter and cartridge.
The other school relies on no suspension - though there are various camps within this...
Most higher-end manufacturers who don't use suspension use "mass damping" - i.e. make it heavy to minimise vibration, as well as moving the motor as far as poss from the platter. Frinstance, the Verdier TTs weigh 30-odd Kgs, and the motor is at least a foot away from the TT - you often need 2 separate supports! Clearaudio use less mass, but rely on very quiet motors and extremely tight tolerances in the bearing, plus a non-resonant material (aircraft grade acrylic) in a "resonance cancelling" shape - my Revolution is shaped like a see-through boomerang...
Advantages of each type were that suspended designs had better "air and space", and rigid ones had better bass..
However, an Avid Volvere (suspended) has seismic bass, and a Platine Verdier has possibly the best "air and space" I've ever heard.
So really it comes down to personal choice - but none will give of their best unless properly supported... I'm of the view that the best is a shelf rawl-bolted to a solid wall but I'm sure others will come along with their own immovable views
_________________
Currently attempting to gain entry to valve heaven


Hi Lawrie,

Once again thanks for the praise. I'm pleased you like the pieces. When I post I try to use terms that as many people can understand. It is no use blinding people with science.

As you spend more on your turntable, the chances are that you will be using a moving coil. So some maker aim their products at this end of the market. For example the Groove phono stage cost £2000+. This is moving coil only. You order it to be matched to your cartridge. Most people wouldn't use this phono stage with cheap cartridges. (or cheap turntables & arms). Tom Evans has cheaper phono stages which will cater for the moving magnet. It is possible to have both in one box. It many depends on the company who makes the phonostages. There are good phonostage thta offer both.

As for suspension systems, different companies use different ideas to solve the same problems. What you have to bear in mind is that no solution is perfect & different solutions will cost diffferent amounts of money.

A suspended sub chassis like the gryodeck & Linn work on damping any movement with a spring system. Any vibrations will be handled by this system. When the suspension moves, the platter & the arm will move together. This means that the record, platter, cartridge & tonearm are stable with respect to each other. Like with a car suspension.

There are downsides. Most system don't perform the same under different conditions. In this case, depending on the frequencies involved, the suspension system will oscillate more. The system has resonant frequncies. This can at a level that upsets the platter, arm & cartridge. Also each component has it's own resonant frequnencies. It is possible that at certain frequencies if the system get to most energy, (vibration), it can become unstable. This can turn into the tonearm/cartridge jumping out of the groove, mistraking of the cartridge, howl around. (feedback through the speakers) or just cloud the sound quality

Designers try to make sure that these effects are at a minimum in the audio frequency range. They make them as low as possible. Different style of suspension have been used from spring to bellows to high mass to low mass etc.

Solid plinth turntables have to rely on the materials used. Different materials have different properties. By careful choice of material you can cut down a lot of vibrations. Also design plays a part as materials can act as energy sinks and energy decouplers. For example spikes can act as a energy sink & air suspension as a decoupler. Some makers go for a high mass design while other go for a light design.



There are many ways to deal with the problems & no turntable is perfect. This is also why you have seen the stand & turntable accessories grow over the years. Also that is why you have seen a number of different designs of turntable over the years.

Also Leonard has made some good points as well.

I hope this grabs your interest.

SCIDB


Lawrie..

Phono stages... firstly there are two significant differences between the two types for MC and MM cartridges... namely Gain and Input load.. MC cartridges require significantly more gain than MM cartridges , (with the exception of some high output MCs), and a different load to obtain a flat frequency response. The standard load for a MM cartridge is 47K ohms and a capacitance figure which varies between phono stages.. MM cartridges are sensitive to the capacitance they see..it affects the high frequency response. MCs require a significantly lower resistance load of around 100-200 Ohms and again a capacitance that again varies according to which model phono stage. Normally, a phono stage with inputs for both MC and MM will be designed as a MM stage.. with a bit of extra circtuitry to provide extra gain and a different input load for MC cartridges... as you can imagine most high end designers consider this to be a compromise for the MC input.. and so provide a stage designed purely for MC cartridges from input to output. Apart from reasons of quality.. the main reason that most manufacturers provide single inputs..(either MM or MC) is probably one of cost and where they see their place in the market. Obviously if they can sell you another phono stage when you upgrade from MM to MC they will all the happier.


Suspension... leonard has pretty much covered this.. but to expand on your question..as well as the two supension schools there are also two energy schools.. ie what do you attempt to do with vibrational energy within the deck.. the two schools are basically the "damp it" and the "channel it" schools.... the first school is obvious, all energy is damped out of existance by use of materials/fluids etc..... the second is.. provide a channel or path for the vibration to "flow" away from the stylus/deck into the stand.. some decks use a combination of the two schools.. The Well tempered deck is a extreme example of the damp it camp most other decks primarliy follow the "channel it" route.. ie Linn/Roksan/Rega etc.. as you can see the suspensions in these decks ranges through full spring/compliant material/solid.... but all maintain that the cartridge to deck interface should be rigid and very close tolerance...

Irrespective of the method used to deal with vibrations within the deck.. all decks are susceptable to the support they are used on... some like heavy.. some like light.. nearly all prefer rigid.. (at least in the vertical plane - the Roksan stand actually allows very slight side to side movement - though it's not visibly noticable).. as leonard says.. the best base in terms of isolation would obviously be one that moves the least.. which obviously in most domestic situations would be an external brick wall.. so wall stands should be superior .. however.. the stand themselves also contribute to the sound of the deck.. (despite what any manufacturer would have you believe).. and the resulting "sound" may actually be preferable.. (it may actually contribute in a purely positive way - depending on stand/deck combination). For example.. the Roksan stand mentioned above, (a vertically rigid/horizontally semi-rigid light(ish) stand - designed to channel the energy), is of course the recommended stand for the Xerxes and TMS.. however some reviewers have prefered the sound of these decks on much heavier/mass damped and completely rigid supports.. which Roksan themselves don't recommend.

HTH

GTM


Q.

I've been half heartedly kooling for a 2nd hand LP12, but all the ones I've found have been overpriced, badly maintained or both. Still at least it shows that there are some good uns out there.
_________________
TTFN


timbo



A.
Setting up a LP12 isn't rocket science. If you come accross one you could set it up yourself.

The current & last issues of HiFi+ deals with the LP12. It goes into what to lookout for and the possible combinations.

Also check

http://www.sondek-turntable.com/index.htm Here is an article written by Jimmy Hughes who has set up a lot of LP12s in his time.

www.pinkfishmedia.co.uk then click on the flat earth button. Here are you will find the settup manual for an LP12.

The price of LP12s on ebay can be high but check out Loot.com or ring round a load of Linn dealers. They may have one in stock 2nd hand. Somtimes a dealer may have enough bits laying around to build a lp12. Worth a try.


SCIDB

 

Thanks for that, SCIDB. A very interesting run down.

Just one point to prove that Rule 1 of hi-fi is "There are no rules".

I've recently been talking to Tom Fletcher, the designer of Nottingham Analogue. They use a fairly massive platter with a solid plinth system. Their platter is sufficiently massive that once it gets spinning at the right speed, not much is going to put it off. Tom's philosophy is that the motor should do as little as possible, so that its vibrations, etc. interfere as little as possible. The motor on the Spacedek isn't even powerful enough to start the platter spinning, you do this by hand. Once it gets going the motor does enough to maintain the speed.

Just when you think you've got it down, there's always someone who comes along and does it well but does it differently. Long may it continue thus.

 

Dean we are not worthy!!:respect: :notworthy

any chance of your views on specific TTs, arms and cartridges when you have some time, and can we make this somehow a FAQ and sticky?

 

I'm thinking about how best to organize this type of FAQ. Probably a read-only forum. When I've set it up I'll move this there

Michael.

 

A little disconcerting at first Steve, let me tell you!

You have to shove a little TOO HARD, and then it slows to the correct speed after about 5 seconds or so.

If you dont shove it round hard enough, the low torque motor spins things round at under 33, and you get voooccccaaaaaaaaallllllsss exxxxtteeeeeeeennnnnnnnddeeeeeeeeeddddddddd llllllllliiiiiikkkeeee thaaaattttttt !!

The Interspace, spacedek, interspace, mentor, dais are all like that - I havent played with a horizon or annalog , but they probably are the same too

NB Dont let the above put anyone off, it isnt a problem in use!

 

So it sounds like Johnny Ray's sample on "Biscuit" by Portishead then?

"Iiii'llll nevvvvverrrrrr fallllll iiiinnnnn lovvvvve agaiiiiiiinnnnn"

He he he...

Rega also recommend that you start the platter by hand first; I'm amazed Michell don't, 'cos Henryt's Orbe's platter isn't exactly light...

 

This gives me the thought of having a mechanically powered turntable, powered by a large grandfather clock type pendulum.
The mechanics could drive the platter via a belt.

It would get rid of the whole electric motor/power supply problem, whilst only adding tiny problems of its own.

Has it been done?

 

sticky ?

hi michael, can we make this a sticky ?
thanks
robert

 

OK, I've made it sticky for now until I think of a proper place to put FAQs
Michael.

 

It's a great post for roundtable beginners. I am planing to buy soon a Pro-Ject roundtable and these info are great for me !:banana:

 

hi,guys, as a dealer i have the previlage of trying all sorts "not choks" but having over 4000 vynils i do love the project x-periance t/t with the rondo red, imo
nando.

 

On limited budget I'd recommend a Gyro SE (not Gyrodeck)s/h. They're extremely upgrade/tweakable due to the robust engineering. 6yrs ago I sold my LP12 of 20+ yrs. there was no going back. Great tho it is the LP12 sound is coloured as lush & warm it's also v tricky to get the bounce right (forget heavy arms).
Gyro cheap upgrade: change the Gyro battery for SLA battery & reg (Tom Evans is THE ps unit but for ~£1000). Try isolation/absorbation combinations. Remove the belt & use a lenght of silk thread, the knot has no effect on sound. The motor can then be sited further away (gives better isolation). Save up for the Orbe platter upgrade then go for the Gert Pedersen upgrade kit-major surgery! not for the faint of heart. By now the deck is a collossal performer. Other things to look at: mats, LP ring, damping trough, LG's isolator, etc. (any re/views on these?). Above all thoroughly read manuals/instructions it's very hands on.

 

With vinyl (& valves) being somewhat specialised it'll benefit you to form a good relationship with a (smallish enthusiastic) dealer/s, their wide experience will save you a lot of trial & error. They stock exotic kit from smaller manufacturers otherwise unavailable (had demo of Simon York & Brinkmann tt -lucky me!). So go the extra mile to support them esp. in these credit crunch times. The shadow of Tesco looms!
I am not a dealer.