Vinyl played through a dac!

Rob if you think this inappropriate please move, or delete.
I have a new turntable but I am temporarily without phono stage or preamp, the DAW I use can create the RIAA curve in the digital domain, I had some leads made up so I could plug the tonearm directly into the DAW, the machine I use has MIC preamps built in so more than enough gain floating around.
The first experiment sounded a little thin but a couple attempts later, increasing the loading has really improved the sq and now it sounds superb , with the same tonality and timbre and perhaps more dynamic than my digital files.
The last vinyl set up I had here was all valve ( head amp phono pre and power )and boy was that different!
I should have my 'legacy' components back next week, so it will be interesting to compareand contrast, anyhoo analogue to digital and back out to analogue!
Keith.

 

Hi Keith,

I'm sure that people will be interested to hear these differences.
I can't see anything inappropriate - one of the drivers in altering our trade policy was to encourage such discussion on the forum.

regards,

Rob.

 

Rob Hi, I know that a couple of manufacturers are making 'modern' preamps, a box with digital and anlogue inputs ADC ,DAC RIAA in the digital domain, analogue or digital attenuation etc.
Sounds good at the moment though!
Keith.

 

I think that doing RIAA in the digital domain could have a lot going for it.

The benefits for vinyl collectors are obvious - the ability to alter the correction curve to suit that used on the recording at the time for starters.
You could even go further and have very precise correction files to properly match a variety of cartridges, just like happens in professional use with different microphones.

That all gets rather clumsy in the analogue domain, but digital makes it easy.
You obviously need good digital for the job though.

 

Quite, I am having a phono stage made ,where we can bypass the RIAA , so still create the curve digitally , we can experiment to our hearts content!
Keith.

 

It doesn't work particularly well in 16 bit, there isn't really enough headroom. 24 bit is superb.

I use a heavily modded Quad 33 just for this purpose, so that I can correctly transcribe to digital from records which do not have a standard (riaa) equalisation curve.

They are mostly 78's with some early vinyl. The improvement in sound quality on playback is astonishing. I reckon only the original recording engineers ever heard these recordings played back correctly, since home re-play equipment was, and still is, far below the standard of recording equipment.

JC.

 

I use 24 / 192, I need more gain, so will continue experimenting when my 'bypass' phono stage arrives.
Keith.

 

Possibly you are using a mc cartridge Keith.

I came to the conclusion that for the type of records which mainly interest me a good mm cart was best. The snr is much better.

I have retained a mc input module in reserve. I shall remove the riaa eq from it in due course, so that it becomes flat, but still gives the cart the correct loading.

JC.

 

p.s. I consider 24 bit essential, but 192 is unnecessary overkill.

24/96 is more universally useful, imo.

 

Interesting points JC.

With regard to cartridges, I'd imagine you want something contemporary with the disc production for early mono LP, and something with appropriate stylus geometry for 78s for best results ?

 

Indeed Rob. Expert Pickups or whatever they are called these days is the place to go.

For vinyl you can get away with a couple of stylus shapes, but for 78's you might need as many as 5 or 6 differing stylus shapes (tip radius, truncated cone, etc) to cover the differing cutting lathe, and therefore groove characteristics in use between say 1910 and 1960.

1925 to 1939 is my favourite period, and each record manufacturing company had differing groove and eq characteristics.

A standard cartridge and riaa phono amp gets you nowhere till the sixties onwards.

You probably know all this

JC.

 

Having looked at their literature I find they are now known as the Expert Stylus Company, of Ashtead, Surrey. It is usual to obtain a stylus complete with a body, i.e. a cartridge, but they supply stylii alone as well.

This is an extract from their literature insofar as it relates to 78's. They are equally competent with vinyl requirements.

********************************************

LATERAL CUT 78 R.P.M.

Our experience in manufacturing styli to play early acoustical and electrical recordings is extensive. During the last 20 years we have been producing diamonds and sapphires with varying radii and profiles in an effort to find the optimum to reduce surface noise. We have received considerable assistance in our research from record companies, record archives, broadcast companies, private collectors, musicians and universities.

Our recommendations for records made within the following perlods are as follows:

Recommended Sizes

Conical Truncated

Elliptical Truncated

Pre 1920

.0040" (90 microns)

.0040 x .0012"

1920 - 1939

.0035" (80 microns)

.0035 x .0012"

1939 - 1966

0028" (650 microns)

.0028 x .0009"


It will be noted we supply other sizes of diamond of a smaller radius. These sizes are at times most useful where records have not been subjected to continuous playing with steel needles. The reduced contact area results in a quieter background.

ACOUSTICAL CUT

We manufacture replacement diamond and sapphire styli for most makes of phonograph including Edison, Pathe, and Columbia. The styli can be supplied mounted in bars or, alternatively, we can re-furbish clients own which we feel is so much better as it ensures the machine retains an original part. Pathe sapphires are supplied mounted in brass shanks. Columbia sapphires can either be supplied loosely or mounted in aluminium domes ready for cementing to diaphragms.

ELECTRICAL REPRODUCTION: LATERAL AND VERTICAL

Those clients wishing to play records, discs and cylinders electrically can do so by using a cartridge fitted with the correct stylus. It is important the cartridge will allow tracking weights up to 5 or even 6 grams. For normal lateral cut records a tracking weight of 3 grams will be adequate. For centre start Pathe discs and records in poor condition extra weight will be necessary. It will also be necessary to wire the cartridge for vertical response only otherwise noise from the lateral channel will be experienced. This we carry out for clients.

DECIDING WHETHER TO USE CONICAL OR RI.LIPTICAL TRUNCATED DIAMONDS

The condition of records will dictate whether to use conical or elliptical truncated diamonds. Records in good condition will reproduce with greater analysis and reduced surface noise if played with elliptical truncated diamonds. Records that are visually poor in condition are better suited to conical truncated diamonds.

**********************************************

JC.

 

You are probably the only person on the internet, who is untested in hi-fi and analogue playback, who has not heard of The Expert Stylus Company. These chaps are responsible for re-tipping a large number of MC cartridges and have been doing so for many, many years.

 

He Had heard of them, just the old name it seems.

 

Correct Rob, they were originally called Expert Pickups when I began dealing with them. The old name has stuck with me.

 

YNMOAN, ........... untested ??? ...... is this a spelling mistake ? did you mean interested ?

I can assure you I've been tested ............... and found to be satisfactory except sometimes I can't remember names.

You keep changing the spelling of yours, - can't you remember it either ?

JC

 

Recorded some vinyl on the Amarra Model 5 dac ( Metric halo ULN8 ) yesterday, results were outstanding, it is a superb piece of kit.
Keith.

 

Stick the file up Keith - lets hear it.

 

I will Rob, I just want to try a couple of things, I want to compare performing the RIAA digitally to traditionally, I am having a phono made with a 'straight through ' option, also Sonics' 'vinyl recording' package is released in the next couple of weeks and I want to give that a go1!
Keith.

 

any progress on this?