vinyl v cd...

ok, i am worried about the can of worms this may unleash, but here goes...

how much... would i need to spend... to get a worthwhile advantage from vinyl over my wadia cd set up? :duck:

and please don't get side tracked by the whole vinyl is always better at any price thing.... or the " i don't like wadia" thing.

i'm very happy with my current set up. however, i have never heard a proper hifi vinyl set up. haven't heard vinyl much at all since i was a kid.

i'm sure that vinyl is better, but i'm also sure that it will need to be a fairly serious set up before it is better than what i have. so where / what price range are we talking about before it eclipses my wadia but doesn't come crashing into the law of diminishing returns?

 

Depends what you mean by "better".

I wouldn't get into vinyl for nebulous sound quality reasons (vinyl generally sounds better than CD to me, but it doesn't to everybody, and you might be one of those people who simply prefers CD). Buy a turntable if you buy a lot of music, especially secondhand music. If you're more interested in sound rather than exploring lots of new music, stick with what you have.

-- Ian

 

well i have to say that the ability to pick up vinyl at 50p a go seems like a wonderful thing. i live virtually next door to the vinyl exchange on notting hill gate!!! i could see the vinyl storage issue being the biggest problem. i like sound quality very much, but i have always been in it for the music, and when i think about the chance to hear stuff from before the late eighties sounding less "thin" that excites too!

i think what i'm asking is how much is it going to cost me to get better than what i have and to have have access to that back catalogue, to see if i want to spend that kind of cash....

 

If you find you like analogue, you may discover you prefer a budget Rega to your current setup. It really all depends.

If you don't have any records at the moment, buy something like a Rega P3 and spend several months in MVE, Intoxica, Rough Trade, and all the other excellent record shops in Rotting Hill. Once you've acquired a reasonable number of records, if you find you've grown to love analogue, flog the Wadia and buy something cheaper, like a 47 Labs clone DAC, and spend the rest on a really good turntable. If not, sell the Rega (you won't lose much on it) and the records (ditto).

-- Ian

 

If you just want to dip your toes in the water, the Pro-Ject Debut III at £120 is also an excellent buy. I've had mine 2 years now and have got no compelling reason to upgrade it.

Lots of bargains to be had with S/H vinyl and there is always that rewarding feeling when you find an album you've been after for ages.

 

I've been firmly back in the groove for the past year, since bringing my turntable out of its decade-long exile in the loft. My CD player (Rotel 02) though decent enough is nowhere near as grand as yours, but my deck isn't that esoteric either (Systemdek) and to my ears it is far and away superior.

However, don't imagine you suddenly going to amass a large and astounding record collection for minimal outlay, as in my experience this 50p a record claim is a myth. It might have been true five years ago, but not now. MVE don't knock out much worth having for 50p as far as I can see and neither does anywhere else in London. On the other hand, I think some of the new releases coming out on vinyl are excellent. The quality of the pressings and packaging for Brian Wilson's Smile and Tom Waits' Real Gone, for example, are superb. As objects in their own right they're vastly superior to those mean little discs in their plastic boxes; buying them feels like more of an event, and listening to them seems to demand more of my time and attention, which means I get much more out of them. For me that's half the pleasure of vinyl.

As Ian says, suck it and see. Like most pervy pursuits, it's not for all.

 

i had imagined the sound might suck me in whilst the cost of software would let me explore more, but if you're saying that there really sin't that much cheap stuff around, it probably isn't worth it.
i don't really want to go for anything that isn't going to at the very least equal the wadia... other wise might as well just stick to cds as i already have at least a thousand of those....

 

Hiya

Given the rest of your rig it looks as if you have a few quid, without meaning in anyway to be rude. You have very little to lose, especially if you buy a record player secondhand.

Firstly I think you'd need a phono stage unless your little amp has got one. Have a quick search on the forum, I'd imagine there would be loads of threads. I think Rega do a reasonable one, then you're looking at £300-£400 for a Trichord Dino/Tom Evans Microgroove/EAR etc etc, much less secondhand of course. In my experience system synergy is all. I'm much, much happier with my record player now I've got my new amps/speakers than I was before, and completely by accident. If you can borrow before you buy much the better. As sideshow bob says, rega are a good place to start. You could pick up a Rega P3, a decent cartridge and phono stage for £500 new, I'd have thought.

The £500 you spend, whatever you buy, new or secondhand ,will be money VERY well spent. I disagree with the notion that you can't get vinyl dirt cheap - round my way you certainly can, for £1 an LP if not 50p. Just go to charity shops. Amongst the shitty old Mantovani discs there will something in good nick that you haven't heard. Guaranteed. New vinyl is very expensive but I'd doubt you'd want to invest in that [unless you love the tactile feeling of a vinyl LP that much, tempting as it is] because MOST new vinyl is quite expensive. I believe in the merits of secondhand vinyl so much that I'm almost willing the little £120 NOS TDA1543 DAC that I've just bought from ebay to be as good/listenable as my DAC64, so I can flog it and buy loads of records.

If you have the spare dosh I'd find a friendly project/rega dealer, borrow a deck/phono stage and have a listen. Then buy loads of records from Mind and British Heart Foundation etc etc for peanuts. Happy listening !!

Paul

 

i think trying to get a tt to match your cd player is an expencive jump in at the deep end, ive never heard a tt that sounds like a cdp , their two different kettles of fish, then again ive never heard a really decent tt set up.
buy a cheap quality tt such as a rega, systemdek etc ( second hand if possable) and enjoy the records, they might not give you the same kind of sound a cdp will but i doubt you will be dissapointed.

 

I think for me one of the best things about having a turntable is the fact I have access to far greater material. I can buy records for £2 that would cost £20 on CD. Not all vinyl is cheap though, I have often paid upto £10 for 20 year old Joy Division albums even though you can buy the same album new on CD for £3.

I think the sound of vinyl is simply different rather than better, my £120 Project was easily better than my £100 Sony CDP530 but I wouldn't say it was better than my Marantz CD6000OSE LE.

Storage can be a problem, I have nearly 100 LPS now and I am running out of space to but them in, but then having a bedroom that looks a bit like John Peel's library is quite cool

 

see this is the thing, if it isn't going to be an improvement sound wise, then i'm loathed to spend ANY cash. might as well buy more cds. however, if i can better the wadia for say the 1200 (i think.... can't recall for sure without checking) that uncle ants paid for his spacedeck, then it becomes interesting.... :JPS:

just as you say jumping in at the deep end with out knowing if i'm going to like it is risky, but at the same time starting out with something that i know won't match what i already have, isn't going to do it for me either....

i just don't know enough about vinyl and how much you can spend before the diminshing marginal utility thing kicks in, versus how big the jumps are in sound quality for more dosh. i imagine that the benefit curve has "fat tails" for utility gain.

 

audition some tt's and see what you think.

 

To be honest I doubt you're going to better the sound of your CD player without spending serious money, then you have to repurchase a lot of software the cost could run into £1000's.

I think the only reason you should consider a turntable is if you either have too much money or you want to be able to have acess to stuff you can't buy on CD. If this is the case then a £300 Rega P3 should be more than upto the job, its the music you should be enjoying anyway, not tiny minute detail differences.

If you buy a cheap turntable and buy and end up getting lots of vinyl records that is the time to buy a good turntable.

 

if you have a reasonable cd collection then to be honest i just wouldn;t bother. cd's aren't that expensive over the internet and i've been able to trackdown 90% of the stuff i've been looking for without even going outside of amazon and their 'market place sellers' there are a few other online 2nd hand places and direct sellers like chaos unlimited.
there are a few albums i'd like that are just not availible on cd but on the whole i'd rather buy 300 quids worth of new music than buy a sub par vinyl system to play 3 or 4 records.
cheers


julian.

 

You've got to find someone nearby who has a decent vinyl rig who will let you listen. Its the only way you'll find out without spending a lot of money you may regret.

Bob

 

I think it just depends, the savings I have made buying vinyl records have more than paid for my turntable, but then mine cost me £120 and not £1000's. Many of the more popular albums can be bought for £1 and they are often in very good condition. I also tend to buy new albums on vinyl simply from a collectors point of view.

 

I can see your point about you wanting the records to sound as good as your CDs.

I would have think that £1200 would be more than enough to get a top-quality, if not top-flight record player that would sit quite happily with your Wadia.

Yours ever

Paul

 

most of my latest cp purchases have been from a place called caimen un the us. i've paid between 2.50 and 8 quid for cd's - including shipping. you could probably beat that price from a charity shop but there's no garuntee they'll have what you want or of what condition it's going to be in. if you like the idea of vinyl and think it sounds better than cd then fine but if you already have a large sum invested in cd then splitting your budget going to vinyl is counter productive in the long run. if i was blakeaudio i'd be seeing if i could stretch to a better cdp (wadia 861 or one of tonys specials perhaps) if i sold my 301 rather than looking to add another source.
of course this is only my point of view and know that some out there have done the opposite - ripped their cd collection to hdd, sold it and their player off and then bought into vinyl in a big way - horses for courses really.
cheers


julian

 

Personally I wouldn't go for a budget deck like a Rega P3,I seriously think it will put you off,the difference will be too big,and you won't bother,I think you need to look at around 1k,which is quite a lot for a starter with no records,I would imagin the Rega sound isn't for you,as it's quite forward,lacking a bit of body and authority,good for pop music etc.

Vinyl is really good,but I think you need to invest a bit in it when buying new,or save by going S/H,and as said records are getting more exspensive again with a greater demand.

 

I disagree,a well setup Planar 3 with a decent phono stage (say £250) is a match for any equivalent priced CDP,or even upto a grands worth tbh.I'm certainly not disappointed,and several LPs sound better than on cd,Dark Side Of The Moon being one of them