Virtual Tube bake-off - compare ECC83s

At long last and as promised, here is the ECC83 comparison thread.

Lots of people seem interested in tube rolling in order to fine tune the balance of their valve amplification and the ECC83 is fairly common in pre amps and phono stages, not to mention the input sections of some power amplifiers.

Here we have a selection of ten tubes for you to try.
Each was inserted into the output buffer position of a World Design phono stage. This uses one tube in that position and because these are double triodes, one half of the tube serves each channel. A type 5751 is also included as this close relative to the ECC83 is preferred by some.

A spectral plot is also provided for each tube and if you view these carefully you will see that clear differences exist between these tubes, but please listen to the files first before looking
The plots reveal nothing dramatic in terms of balance - so if you feel that, for example, one tube has waaay more bass than another I'd suggest a cold shower or a walk around the block before listening again

The track chosen is a nice bit of swing in the form of 'Mack the Knife' .

The tracks were recorded in silence (so no microphony) and the phono stage was running direct into the ADC, recording at 16/44.
Tubes perform differently depending on how and where they are used in a circuit, so this is merely intended to highlight differences as used here, but this type of use is common nonetheless.

Enjoy!


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Brimar ECC83

http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?jyaolyjbj40

Telefunken E83CC

http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?4eg2mb4giyo

Mullard (yellow print) ECC83

http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?nn4gddzhmyv

Chelmer Premium ECC83

http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?qoc2zhvlnzb

Mazda ECC83

http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?byuanjmjmkz

Trigon ECC83

http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?ntnnmqjmw2g

General Electric JAN 5751

http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?dmxjojujz2n

JJ ECC83

http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?zj2fnmcaje1

Sovtek (Edicron) ECC83

http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?jmnztmknkn4

EI ECC83 (modern Telefunken clone)

http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?jom0lmmnwmz



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Spectral Plots:


Brimar:



Telefunken:



Mullard:



Chelmer:



Mazda:



Trigon:



General Electric:



JJ:



Sovtek LPS:



EI:

 

Anyone had a listen yet?

 

Downloaded all & listened to sections of them all

Based on a first listen there is Not much difference between them

I thought I detected more sibilance in the second & a little more coarseness in the last. Then I noticed they were nearly all sibillant. Is this a digital source? It doesn't sound like the AT33PTG that I'm used to from your samples.

I'll give them all a good run through tomorrow, so reserve more comments for later.

I've not looked at the graphs & wouldn't know what to look for anyway.

 

Can we have a "Guess the Singer" section?

I couldn't place the voice at all.

My starter for ten - Jack Jones

 

AT33PTG and a nice 180g pressing.

It isn't jack Jones

 

I've not started listening yet, but can someone give me an indication of what I'm meant to be seeing in the graphs - they all look identical to me, and I mean identical! How is one supposed to interpret them?

Tony.

PS Rob if that's my GE it's an ECC83, not a 5751

 

There are some eye-bendingly tiny differences in the graphs.

What would be quite interesting would be to turn the gain up and examine the noise.

Paul

 

I know nothing about valves other than their reputation for producing a sweet sound (which to be honest I think is a bit lacking in these recording samples). Is there a price difference between them? Are some supposed to be higher performers than others? Is the purpose of this exercise to debunk some myths?

I have now looked at the graphs & note that by & large they appear the same. Any differences are neglible in the graphs and the same comment also applies to the recordings.

I know it ain't Springsteen.

 

I did take some quick n dirty noise measurements from the display on the ADC/DAC. Essentially just a level reading of noise from the phono stage with nothing playing. There is a about 8db between those tubes and I'll put the figures up later, so quite considerable.

If you examine the graphs you can see differences of up to 3-4db and that is enough to change the sound over a broad range.
The Mullard for example is a few db up at the bottom and similarly down at the top.
If I replicate that effect via EQ it can clearly be heard.

 

Prices vary considerably - £8 for the Sovtek up to over £100 for the Telefunken.

With electronics I think +/- 3db is quite a lot and certainly enough to alter sound balance. Far greater than most SS amplifiers via line input, or even CD players.

Pick a point on the purple curve for a few of the tubes and reference it to the levels on the the left hand side.

 

It's quite hard to compare the graphs by eye, overlays would make it a lot easier...

If the circuit I found is the right one then I'd expect small differences in tubes to lead to changes in the operating conditions, and the operating point of V4a is dependent on V2b, so there's a cascade of tolerance involved. It would be interesting to measure the volts around the tubes and see how much (if at all) they changed as tubes were swapped.

Oh, I know who the singer is, but I won't tell if you won't.

Paul

 

And if the observed performance changes are related to operating point then tweaking resistors might be a cheaper way to the same end than swapping tubes.

Paul

 

hi rob, any chance of locating sovereings?
regards,
nando.

 

Bobby Darin?

I'll admit I had to google as Curiosity got the better of me.

 

we used to use the sov's on tube tech, awesome,
nando.

 

Paul, I'll pop the circuit up later.
Its a WAD Phono II and the only tube change was the output buffer.

 

Hi Joseph,

I use Hotrox uk - reliable and good value.

 

rob can you get an equvalent to phillips8626 byhotrox?
nando.

 

I shall invesigate after finishing the day job....

 

Great post! I'm using Tesla ECC83's tubes on the pre-amp section of my Audio Innovations 500 and am pretty happy with the results. Nothing to fail at the price, and IMHO not as bright as the Sovtek's. Got 4 of those on the power front (EL 34's Sovtek Reflector).

Still missing a bit of warmth though, but it does rock!:MILD:

Regards,

Vincula