Wall shelf vs. isolation platform for TT

It's perhaps premature for me to already be thinking about how I would "support" a TT in my system since I haven't decided 100% yet that I'm going to get one but it's looking pretty certain.

I'll be getting a Rega of some kind, probably a P5 or if I have a moment of madness I might just go for a P9 :MILD: . Anyway, Rega's are said to work best on a decent wall shelf but I was looking at just where I would put such a shelf today and I have my doubts.

First of all it would just look completely stupid and be completely out of line with the rest of the system since the wall where I would put it is not quite at 90deg to the side walls of the room (old building) so it would be at an angle (the rest of the system faces straight down the room). Secondly, a wall shelf is a fairly permanent fixture, requiring filling of holes and repainting if I wanted to move it. So, I was thinking I would just add an extra shelf to my existing setup (DIY IsoBlue copy) and stick the TT on that. Proper vibration isolation could be handled with a Voodoo air platform (or Townshend Seismic Sink, or similar).

What would be the advantages/disadvantages of either approach from a purely sonic standpoint?

Michael.

 

What sort of floor do you have? If it's reasonably solid any light and rigid support will be fine, Ikea Lack tables are quite a popular choice and cost less than £20.

You should go for the P9...

-- Ian

 

Hi Michael

For a TT without sub-chassis suspension as the Rega a wall shelf is best.

For a TT with a suspended sub-chassis like the Linn Sondek a table is best .

That are my opinions ,in my TT times... :MILD:

 

Wooden floors (110yr old building). They're quite...erm...bouncy (allthough considerably less so closer to the walls obviously).

TD, that was what I've been told by everyone but I really don't want to get a wall shelf unless it will be crap without it.

Michael.

 

But then ,why not you buy a suspended sub chassis TT?

With your 110 Years old floor ...it will be more wise... :MILD:

 

With old wooden floors but solid walls a good shelf will almost always be better. If your floors have bounce when people walk on them then it will almost be a nesessity to avoid skip. Four small but deep screw holes is all it takes to mount a shelf but the results can be stunning with good heavy walls.

The correct support for a TT can easily be equivilent to a £100 or more upgrade on the TT itself, most common upgrades within TTs (ignoring tone arms) are isolation and anti vibration devices.

A good cartridge and phono stage are the next step.

Chris

 

The best bet is to try it and see. My advice would be: (a) buy a P9; (b) buy an Ikea Lack or similar; (c) if you have problems, investigate isolation options.

-- Ian

 

Mine's fixed to the wall with 8 M8 rawlbolts into a solid stone wall.. Quite a lot of filling should I move..
However, it just happens to be the same size and colour (after painting) as my Finite Element rack, so fitting it directly above the rack looked great..
And when I had a suspended TT, it also sounded better on a wall shelf than on a rack - there's "isolation" and there's isolation!

 

That sounds like a sensible way to go about it Ian (parts b) and c) anyway )

Michael.

 

Turntables don't especially like sitting on heavy mass loaded equipment stands, they sound best on a separate table (of your choice) or a purpose designed wall shelf. I used to own a P9 and tried a Seismic Stink under it and it was truly awful, it made the sound really muddy and disjointed. With a P9 I'd recommend the Rega wall shelf – it's cheap and does the job very well.

Tony.

 

A wall shelf would certainly "work" in my flat. The wall it would be attached to is made of solid stone about a foot wide! I'll have to see what I can do about the "aesthetic" issues unique to my particular room.

Michael.

 

I feel that, as with so much in hifi, turntable support/isolation can be taken to absurd and obsessive levels (and I'll leave it at that, for the sake of peace).

My Systemdek, a suspended sub chassis model, is a bouncy bugger, but I have it on a humble Ikea table, on a suspended wooden floor (tastefully carpeted in coir). Even the kids throwing themselves around like lunatics can't seem to upset it. I used to have a Target wall shelf and it did the job perfectly well. But I refuse to start drilling holes all over the shop to accommodate a rather unattractive piece of metal framing. I still have it if you're interested, though.

There's also a good article on the P5 in the latest issue of HiFi World. Let me know if you want a copy.

 

Thanks for that Ron. I'll start off seeing how things go without a wall shelf and then consider one if I'm unhappy with the sound. You can really "try out" a wall shelf unfortunately (without leaving holes in the wall!).

I've got that issue of HiFi World, thanks for the offer though

Michael.

 

Michael,

Fro my own recent eperience of owning both suspended and un-suspended decks, and with my listening room having particularly bouncy wooden ( 18mm chipbioard over 8" Joists), floors i my finding where:

MY 3 Pro-Ject and One Systemdek un-suspended decks sounded really good just sited on to top of my simple/cheap Atacama Hi-Fi support rack.I found that for some reason the needle never jumped when anybody walked over the floor near to the deck. I could some times detect just the smallest amount of mechanical and accoustic feedback though if the volume was up high from heavy footsteps or bass/drum notes.
I made a very simple Islation platform consisting of a sheet of MDF ( ) and 4 milty foculpods. As soon as i placed the deck on top of this cheap little support the sound improved, but most dramatically the decks became almost immune to the footfall and vibration. I could even Knock the top of the atacama Rack really quite hard with my fist/knuckle and the sound wouldn't get through to the stylus. Really obvious and impressed by what these squishy little supports could do in this respect. When i swapped over to suspended suspension decks ( Dual 505-4, Systemdek iiX, Linn LP12) it was a whole different ball game. The needle would jump out of the groove almost as soon as somebody walked into the room. I found that i had to literally creep up to the deck if it was playig a record with well placed and light ( yeah right, Sid ) footsteps.
Within 1 metre of the rack was the real danger zone though. As soon as i moved the decks to a wallshelf these problems completely disappeared. I can now jump up and down ( or dance even ) right in front of my LP12 and the needle stays rock solid. Also note that my wallshelf is mounted onto what i think is a light but reasonably strong internal plasterboard/stud wall, so i don't even agree with folk that say it has to be mounted on an external, brick wall, my personal experience tells me otherwise, mind you i wouldn't try a multi, multi phase Mana rig on my wall, that would be asking for trouble. (btw, I believe that it is the wall shelf providing these positives , not the particular brand of wallshelf that i use, i also got very good results from a DIY wallshelf that i knocked together and welded up myself- It didn't have a nice badge though so obviously had to go ( ).

In summary I would a say:
Rigid/unsuspended Decks: - pretty much put them anywhere, regardless of floor type, but a small isolation platform with squashy feet could improve things.

Suspended Deck: - On springy wooden floors, try it but be prepared to walk very carefully and be disappointed. Concrete/solid floors, you might fare better but a dedicated Table would probably be an advantage.

A dedicated TT wallshelf will suit any type of Record deck or room flooring type and is a marriage made in heaven. Rega make their own wallshelf specifically designed to house their decks and retail for just circa £50, what a bargain.

 

To a large extent this matches my experience too. My old Michell sat on a homemade (MDF, squishy sorbothane feet) isolation platform, sat on a farely heavy piece of furniture on a suspended floor. With the proper springy feet (a sort of crude suspension) it was jumpy, but with the original feet replaced with the solid cone feet off a Gyro, it was just fine (sounded quite a lot btter in fact).

The non suspended NAS with its own slightly squishy feet sat on the same DIY platform but without the NAS plinth (which is basically the same sort of thing) - no probs either, I can jump up and down like a nut right in front of it - no diff. That said a wall shelf of some sort is gonna happen in the new place, Its quite possible some energy is getting through and muddying things without it being so bad it'll jump.

 

This is my rega P25.modified,my house construction is different to yours,Im solid concrete,so no vibrations,my needle never jumps and it sits on my rack,if you went for Rega then wall shelf would be an exellent solution,exellent choice the P9,thinking of putting the RB1000 on my P25,and the Heed power supply,I just prefer the looks over the P7.

 

Part of the reason the P9 is so tempting over a P5 or P7 is just that it looks so much better. The P5/P7 would look sooooo much better if they had kept the wood surround of the P25.

Michael.

 

Just a huge price difference though unfortunately.

 

Personally I wouldnt have a bouncy turntable support - like putting it on inner tubes for example - regardless of the deck.

My personal order of preference, regardless of deck -

1) A chunky wall shelf, away from corners.
2) A massive chunky piece of furniture. Nothing loose or resonant.
3) Top shelf of a rack, but not directly on glass thanks.

 

Well, it's going to start off being top shelf of a rack and then I'll consider a wall shelf. In many ways my rack is like a massive chunky piece of furniture and it's made of solid wood

Michael.