What can we be told about the coming 3D Sonics Dipoles??

Hi 3DSonics

I'm keen on high efficiency and dipoles - can you say:

Target price?
Likely sensitivity?
Baffle size?
Expected available?

Thanks

Richard

 

They are very good

Read my thoughts on his system in my post towards the end of the 'Auditioning MEG RL901K' thread if you like.

 

Hi,

They are available in the UK (and only in the UK as of now)....

3D Sonics Product List including prices and info (and all sorts of upcomming vapourware)

Specific info on the Speakers (called Transparence after a BBFFOO):

Introducing "The Transparence" - A Full Range Electrodynamic Dipole Loudspeaker

If you are in the south (of the UK), there is a pair on demo at Noteworthyaudio.co.uk, but IIRC you are on the other side of the pond?

Here some photos taken of the actual production version of the speakers (the first pair in fact).

From enjoythemusic.com coverage by Ken Kessler:



Edit - hmm - this piccie does not want to work in-line....

Page here:

http://enjoythemusic.com/hifishow2004/hardware/page3.htm

Here from audiogon - strange perspective distortion, I wonder what the camera was smoking.... ;-)



As realhi-fi also distribute Hyperion we have not pushed these all that hard, so no reviews yet and very few dealers.

Ciao T

 

Hi 3D, any discount for ZG members?.

 

Hi,

You need to take that up with dealers if/when they start stocking them. We won't at this stage sell direct.

Ciao T

 

You mean all the free advertising you are getting here isn't worth anything?

BTW, I was joking. I doubt I can afford your products even with discounts. Which is sad because I remember the set up above above from the small Heathrow show a few years ago. I really liked the amps and CDP.

 

Ive a sneeky feeling these will be worth every penny of the £2400 asked for them. The thought of a crossover-less speaker sounds like a dream to me at the moment (Thorsten will understand that one ;-) )

 

Hey, T-bone, I wasn't criticising. I've heard the above setup! I just can't afford it.

 

Without wishing to appear awkward, could Thorsten please supply distortion figures for these louspeakers both on and off axis?;-)

 

Sorry Dev I know you wasnt, sorry it came across like that. I cant afford them either but for those who can Im sure they're worth it.

As i cant afford that kind of money and I have a passion for hi-fi DIY Thorstens being amazingly helpful in helping me design my own speakers that should be pretty serious when all done.......hopefully.......with luck.......fingers crossed.......

 

Hi,

We claim neither accuracy or low distortion, merely "this sounds good". For that one needs to understand many facets of physio and psycho acoustics.

Based on the feedback I'm getting I got this one I think I got it about right. The rest, have a listen.

Ciao T

 

Will you be at Heathrow T?

 

Hi,

Well, I don't make the pricing, it works on the basis of "factory" price plus distributors markup (who needs to live, dealers do not take on products that do not have good distributor backup) plus dealers markup.

Ciao T

PS (edit), I do not want to give the impression that I am trying to promote my own stuff, I don't. Rick57 (from AA IIRC) asked and he is not a sock puppet for me either, it is a genuine question....

 

Hi,

This year only as visitor.

Maybe we will be back next year, possibly 3DS & MF Audio will gang up for the Spring show, as MF Audio will have a new Phonostage and the semi-new MC Steup and 3DS will have finally otten the 300B IT coupled PP Amplifier on the Shanling Chassis sorted (I hope), so we may want to show off a little.

Gotta see.

Ciao T

 

Hi,

Percieved value is a difficult thing.

Are ANY speakers worth £ 2,400, especially ones with fairly notable SPL and LF limits? I cannot answer that. All I can say is that given the distribution model and the production costs that is what they have to sell for.

There are a lot of "IF" & "BUT" that could have reduced cost, however non of these seemed to be abel to deliver, in the kind of volume we intend to make them.

What I can say is that in terms of sound they do some things VERY FEW other speakers, regardless of cost, techincal principle etc. do and they do so without upsetting my or my business partners wifes, which I guess counts for something.

Ciao T

 

If I'm not mistaken, the results of extensive blind testing in the USA by Floyd Toole suggest that low distortion loudspeakers are invariably preferred under controlled conditions, all the rest are merely colouring the sound to taste and lead to long term dissatisfaction. Whilst I don't neccessarily adhere to this point of view, it is interesting that you simply claim they "sound good". The question is " to whom?"

 

To him and people who buy them! They sound good to me!

No single speaker will sound good to all people, and while there may be a generally preferred sound, that still leaves a market gap for the ones who like something else.

 

Thanks Tenson. I prefer not to add colouration and distortion any more than I have to though, so I guess these things are not really for me.

 

Hi,

Well, if you actually like the way my own speakers look, there is a german project (which grew out of discussions on an obscure german discussion board) which delivers a lot of what our stuff does for DIY and using a much more affordable driver.

Look at www.diyaudio.com for JASD.

This driver sounds a bit rougher and does not quiet go as low as the > € 500 + VAT per pair ones we use and then C37 laquer, but what do you expect at the cost of the Driver in the JASD?

On the condition of strikt confidentiality (I am willing to share MOST of what i know, but an old man some secrets from the world) I can suggest a few mods to that driver which will take it notably further, PM me if you decide to go that way.

Ciao T

 

Hi,

The research I am aware off suggest that under blind listening conditions AND under anechonic conditions the speaker with the flatter on-axis response was preferrable, but others may have been published that I am unaware off.

The on axis FR of the driver we use is what I call "flat enough" (50Hz-16KHz +/-3db, 3rd octave averaging, infinite baffle, anechonic), despite it being a dual cone design. Due to the rest of the speaker design the in room response in a normal "live" living/listening room is also similarly flat (which is not usual) with the stock driver.

The "SE" Prototypes I use at home have different drivers with not quite as good HF response (they are single cone) but the rest is similar.

Also notable for either driver is a very clean impulse/step response and a cumulative decay spectrum that offers a very fast initial decay.

Distortion is not what I'd call class leading, but suffciently low to measure as well (or not) as other high quality speakers.

There are other key areas which neither Fr, Impulse Response or THD cover which have a lot to do how gear sounds and I once the conventional stuff is "good enough" I concentrate on these, when designing for "good sound".

Now if I where to design studio monitors, they would look (and measure) rather different, but I don't.

They sound good to me and to many of those who have heard them. You are welcome to have a listen as well, if you like so you can make up your own mind.

Ciao T