What is the longest you have been unemployed?

AT some good points made above. My views:
- dont have any expectations regards getting a job or what that job might be.
- start a C&G Java programming course in the evening to keep your skills progressing - especially in an Objected Orient[at]ed architecture
- think about and research the "business" aspect regards IT - ie. business software is developed in order to meet the needs of business - understand the principles of business and the market place.
- be prepared to move away from Manchester
- be prepared to take a Support job if you feel the company has decent prospects which might allow you to migrate into another role (if interviewed for a support job dont ask "when could I move into the dev team).
- try to get interviews for roles you would probably turn down if offered in order to become more comfortable talking about yourself and your skills in an interview setting
- read about movements and trends in the industry - this of all my suggestions helped me most in getting into the IT industry. Generally IT bods dont really want to talk about some elegant function you recently wrote - having views and opnions on the profession/sector in general makes you sound more rounded and of course shows you think.

Getting the first role in a programming job is the hardest, especially these days when there are lots of experienced programmers looking for work. However it's not a bad industry once your in if you're careful about which routes you ultimately follow.

Key point - get military about it - dont take anything to heart, just learn from your mistakes and become a guerilla job seeker.
HTH

 

That's more like it, Julian COBOL and (original) SQL or Oracle stuff will make big bucks - shame COBOL is so "wordy"

Oh - EDIT - you're talking to the guy who got turned down for both Burger King AND McDonalds!!! (summer placements+blind cripple=bad risk = "I tried to get a vacation job, and am so proud I didn't end up flipping burgers" - just wish I could find those rejection letters so I could frame them!

 

Excellent points there greg.

 

Just get a job man, anything even remotely related will do.

I graduated in 2001 with a 2:1 in Management and Economics. I went straight from there to a management training position with a Merc dealership, I ended up on sales till Id had enough in Mar 2003. Was unemployed for about 3 weeks till I got a got a job as a Management trainee for a large timber company. Very boring after a few months so I left for a job with Volvo in October 2003. Totally hated that and became ill so I quit at xmas that year. My dad needed a hand with his small business so I started part-time on a temp basis. Still here on that temp basis although in that time Ive managed a major shake-up, did employ 5 when I started with a small turnover. Now we have 18, a million pound turnover and a very hi-tech plant, Im so bored and frustrated though, Im ready for a change.

 

Up to now, and 35 years after graduation, never. But I was lucky (and that's all it really was) to fall into a profession (patent and trade mark attorney) that I liked, that I ended up being able to do well, and that is always in demand.

 

I hope you don't say that stuff iin an interview - maybe this is a clue - you've told us:
You're not a web designer
You're not a graphics engineer
You don't expect to be offered anything except as a web developer
You say out loud your own website is full of crap
You think flash is not for building a website with (even if an employer wants that)
You believe your knowledge of Java is not great, you are not professional at it.

In an interview, only say positive things. If you don't like telling lies, just omit to give all the opinions listed above. If they are daft enough to hire without checking on certain specifics, why should you have to put them right - let them find out! You will find you can do these things in a job situation anyway. Think of how to turn every "bug" you are tempted to mention into a feature.

 

Seen a view other jobs I am going to apply for later, it seems hand coding HTML is back in fashion and there is actually a lot of money on it .

I think I could do with going on a course on MS SQL Server, as this is somthing I have never used and is demand. I am not sure that Java is that important for the job I want to do but if I could get good at Java it opens up a lot of different jobs.

 

Good points by Greg and others, learning a language or a special dialect of a language may well allow you to both get a job but then what? Back in the golden / olden days I did a bit of Cobol, RPG, Fortran, DB2 and dabbled in Pascal, Prolog and APL I noticed that as the tools I used changed from Cobol to APL so did the problems I were asked to solve. I found I could earn a rather good living solving complex business problems that utilised firstly my business knowledge and secondly my coding skills. At this moment in time I do no coding at all, I keep any eye on new ideas and technology but leave the cut and thrust of wrestling with nice new, sharp, bleeding edge tools to younger minds.

What I'm trying to say is that knowledge of how a business functions and how to work with others in the real world IMHO rate a bit above hardcore coding knowledge as these skills are highly transportable from job to job whereas specific coding skills may not be.

Sorrty to sound like an old fart but the suggestion of working for a charity with a chance of meeting and working with people unlike those you have spent you last three years with sounds good and will I think look good on your CV or at an interview.

 

Hehe well

 

Im actually serioulsy thinking about re-training in another profession they really are earning very good money, can work alone (employing is a headache) and work decent hours. Not sure what as yet. Of all the trades we use Id say the plasterer makes the most but thats one hell of a job. I spose it would be between a sparky or plumber.

 

If I get time later I might play with Java a bit to see how my skills transfer. I've got loads of painting to do now though

 

Try not to believe all the hype though, I have a joiner friend who earns £15k he has been doing the job for years. I also know a sparky who is year younger than me on £12k.

However with your management knowledge if you setup you own company doing it you could probably become one of the big boys and make lots of money. There is a lot of money in the trades just make sure you're honest and play a fair game. A plumber has just bought a house near me, which cost around £200,000 so either he has inherited a lot of money or he earns a lot, he runs his own business as well.

He charged us £40 for disconnecting a gas pipe (which is what they all seem to charge) so there is a lot of money in it.

 

Thats poor money to be honest. I employ 4 joiners and on average they take home £500-£700 per week. The plaster charges £300 a day for him and his lad and the plumber just thinks of a figure. We have a set charge with our sparky so Im not sure how it works out.

 

He gets a brand new unofficial van and his boss lets him use it for personal use so I don't think he minds too much.

The spark might not be fully qualified yet. My dads gets around £12-£15k carpet cleaning but he only works 20 hours a week so its not bad. The problem is the work is inconsistant.

My dad also suffers from a major marketing problem, he is one of the cheapest in the yelllow pages but one of the most expensive on the leaflets.

I wish I could think of somthing like that, my inbetween jobs my dad was delivering leaflets for this cowboy carpet cleaner it then gave my dad an idea to setup on his own. The difference is my dads been doing for 8 years now under the same trading name.

We have just had our entire upper part of the house painted, the top windows, the cuttering and hodlers, the drain pipes and the large decor on the room (not sure what the official name is you know the fancy timber things).

They charged £250 it was two days work for two people so thats not really great pay.