Where's the umph?

Following some discussion about neutrality/booring/colouration, I'd welcome thoughts on where you think the 'excitement' (apart from the performers/recording) should come from.

Thus far, I've put my money on the dac and the speakers, doing without a pre, and not looking to the poweramp.

But I'm aware that some poweramps do try to add the umph, and that some like that.


*

 

I don't think "excitement" comes from anywhere apart from the cd or lp (or DAT/1/4" etc) provided it's been recorded properly.
However, I think the best way to reproduce a well-recorded source is by full-range speakers powered with more watts than you need!
Saying that, my speakers are quite low efficiency and with the 640ish w/ch of my amp I still only have a theoretical maximum spl of about 115dB!
It would be possible to get similar results (i.e plenty available headroom) using something like a 30w Ongaku and a pair of Tannoy Westminsters, should you want to spend 4 times the money..

 

The recording

 

You forgot the cables

It has to be from the LP or CD. Anything adding 'umph' will seriously mess with the music.

 

I deliberately left out cables and stands!!

As it happens it would take a lot of digital re-processing to make me warm to some performers(*), even if very accurately recorded, so I do recognise that the recording is probably the critical element, but this is only partially under our control.

Timing clearly matters, hence all the attention to re-clocking; and then there is all that talk about 'fast-bass'.

* I was thinking of whatisname, Lenard Cohen

 

The best way to warm to Leonard Cohen is by use of the "mute" button.
And the best way to warm Phil Collins is with a blow torch.

 

Everything should be musical. Nothing is ever neutral. Whats the point in a great recording/source and boring everything else?

 

Hmmm... I think any component could have an impact on ecxitement really. My present setup isn't as exciting as I'd like, and I'm blaming a combination of the CD transport (old Arcam Delta 250) and power amp (Audiolab), and I'm saying this based on direct comparison to alternatives.

Edit : Oh, I tend to associate excitement more with the top end and 'oomph' with the bottom end, but that could just be me.

 

Phil Collins can play drums well though. I once heard him back up Eric Clapton at a gig here in Edinburgh. Mind you like Collins, I think that Clapton is better at his instrument than his voice. Now Jack Bruce, he was a voice ..

... but I digress

 

First recording. If it is recorded well then you also need a good power amp (dynamic overhead) and speakers (FAST and extended response). Most digital sources have no trouble with 'Umph' in my experience, the difference is more in the subtle details. No experience with LP.

 

Recording, then source (notice there's no turntable option???) then amp, then speakers. But the balance between them is the most important. You have no synergy, you have no excitement

 

Philestines the lot of you ! Does seem to be a love him or hate him artist.

(Agree with you about Phil Collins though - solo stuffs rubbish. Should've stuck to drumming)

 

Gel factor, some kit just works well with other.
Wallop/slam/thwack are available, I do master-classes on the second Saturday in the month.
Its tricky to get it right, for example replacing the B/c with a Bryston 14bst resulted in a down turn of thwack and dynamics, yet it not short of balls in anyway and has serious headroom.
Similarly A pass X-350 is not short of 'balls' either and you'll be pushed to find a sweeter, more grunty amp. yet The thwackomter hardly moves
Speakers/room interaction play a huge part too, remove the room artifacts ala Tact, and you'll see what I mean.
As for top end, yep if I used a AA capital I loose so uch presence and attack its scary, but it doesn't make it bad, just different and that different is some ones else's nirvania
Same with the Buremester 001 and Remiyo 777 cdp. although good, it doesn't cut the mustard for me. But others jizz for the good old U S of A
and of coarse cables make no difference as do tweeks of anykind (thought I'd put that one in )
And as for mains, I mean total pie in the sky
IMHO Its a combination of things the sum of the parts in the key. Wm

 

Leonard is the man.

 

Yes, hence it should be a system not a load of stuff plugged together.

 

You do make me smile Anex

 

OK, Naim apart, which manufacturers produce 'total gel', or is it always pick'n'mix?

 

I suspect, as you've been trying a few for yourself recently, can you give your thoughts so far on what you feel and what, and maybe the guys can recommend something Ditton. Wm

 

To be honest I don't think there is a single manufacturer out there that produces a complete system from front end CD spinner right through to the wooden box that has total synergy. Linn claims they have done, but the Linn sound certainly isn't my cup of tea although it seems to please many folks out there in audiophileland.

In my experience, the real pearls in the hi-fi scene are the obscure little companies that few have heard of that are fighting for recognition and making some great kit at sensible prices.

Take for example MAGNUM. Few have heard of them but I bought an A20 pre-amp off ebay as a cheap pig in a poke stopgap and was simply blown away by the sheer transparency and musicality of it. Awesomely sweet with no vices except the lack of a phono stage.

I was offered a Musical Fidelity A308 pre-amp for silly money so I sold the Magnum pre on - prematurely as it's turned out because the MF pre sounds neolithic by comparison despite the pretty face, famous name label and hefty RRP tag to match.

In other words, SHOP AROUND!

 

and dont forget that magnum offer a full no quibble lifetime guarantee.
cottage industries are generally overlooked though, what about the likes of royd and nva (nene valley audio), alchemist etc. ive had many happy hours with all.
hifi is such a personal thing that i doubt any system can be all things to all men.
i find naim very bright, linn very soft, audiolab very sterile BUT all make good products. well, dont know about audiolab
i think back to that accidental combination of a pioneer a400/ rotel rcd965/ mission 760. cheap as chips, every single cable upgrade sounded great and i didnt have to remortgage the house to do it.
try everything is the best plan. were here for a good time not a long time...