Why do you visit audio forums?

That's called a psychosis, Simon ..........

.... and audio-phoolery is a neurosis .............

You appear to be suffering from both

JC.

 

Except everything I've reported was performed prior to any conversation we've had on the topic. You've had no influence over anything or anyone other than confirming your an asshole.

I hope you're satisfied. Nothing you post in the forums can be trusted now IMO.

 

+1

 

I think that describing the record players in question as the best possible from a poor bunch would be rather harsh and negative on them.

Some of them were world class or near to world class at their particular strengths.

All 3 of my winners would have been very enjoyable record players to own and use. No fatal flaws - just different combinations of strengths and lesser strengths.


The perfect best-at-everything hi-fi component does not exist.

No record player is best at pitch stability, dynamics, detail, bass, midrange, treble, value for money.

And how does one draw up a specification for a record player? Rumble, wow and flutter figures? Frequency response? And what specifications measure the quality of bass, midrange and treble? Distortion figures? They don't tell the whole story. In fact they probably tell hardly any story when it comes to record players.

And where does one get these figures from? Try finding the rumble specs for an LP12.


JCBrum, can you or anyone else nominate a record player / amp / speakers that's the best at everything? The best bass, midrange and treble? The most detailed and the most dynamic and the best soundstaging?


In the absence of any best at everything components, the final choice of component will be down to personal preference and what compromises the user's happiest with.

 

True, but most of it don't do 16Hz pipe organ tones at 120db very well.

So instead of answering my question you instead call me deluded, assume I think that there is some magic or voodoo in sound reproduction and use lots of smilies.

Whatever the reason I read hifi forums are, this isn't it.

 

I see you're deluded too, welcome to the club!

 

Steady now old man, you aren't in the RAF now...... ;-)


Lindsay, it's -72db, good old fashioned A weighted, not the extra 10db free version the Japs use.


Dave I never hoped you would believe a word I said, the point is that you should investigate the merits of everything some one says for yourself and not take it at face value- otherwise you allow people to make a cnut out of you.

 

Simon,

I relayed my observations and requested a technical explanation for what I had heard. If you do not believe plug sequence can affect the sound of hifi gear under any circumstances, just say so instead of playing a silly game and then leave the question to other forum members who may be able to provide an answer.


I've found you a valuable contributer in the past on all matters technical and I'd like to see that faith restored. The ball is your court.

regards,

dave

 

Dave, I don't think there's any difference, but i also don't think there's any harm in trying just in case there is... ;-)

 

I reversed it twice and the differences were still present and enough for me to have a preference. As far as I can tell, no manufacturer went out of business or planet was knocked out of its orbit by my actions so I'd happily recommend folks try it for themselves. If you do or don't hear an improvement, it doesn't cost a dime either way.

 

Not at all, ....... All record players, by comparison with a digital file, are fatally flawed. They just cannot meet the performance specs.

Record players lived and died entirely within the previous century. They are obsolete technology, and firmly in the legacy category. No longer to be considered as Hi-Fidelity in the strict sense, but they do qualify in the 'Home Entertainment' category, which is what they were originally made for.

A good digital recording easily matches the requirement, and has everything necessary to fully satisfy the requirements for human hearing in hifi terms.

At present the weakest link in the re-production chain is loudspeakers. All the rest, - i.e. sources, amplifiers, dacs, etc, have been developed to the point where there are no compromises remaining. Their performance easily exceeds the requirements for human hearing.

No record player can meet the performance available from digital in any of those categories.

The simple answer is that you don't bother, - there's no longer any point for hifi requirements. you simply place them in the 'museum' category, and enjoy them in the same way that people enjoy vintage cars, but don't use them for critical everyday motoring.

Perhaps, .... but that has not got much to do with the pursuit of accurate audio reproduction.

JC.

 

Utterly pointless since it's complete bullshit.

If you think you can hear a difference, it's because you are fooling yourself.

Do you want to live in 'fairyland' with the likes of Malcolm Steward, who tries to justify a commercial living by writing 'audio-foo' nonsense about SATA cables ?

JC

 

Doesn't your favourite speaker salesman now also have a place in your fairyland? After all His once perfect dac in his once perfect speaker is now even more perfecter with a tweaked dac.

 

this thread has turned a bit nasty IMO.

Can't everyone be nice?


Whatever someone wants to try in their home, they are welcome to it. If they find it helps them, so much the better.

Personally I dont want to try - I do have something to lose - that is the most precious thing of all, my time.. If I had 1 day to live, I dont want to spend it putting plugs in or tweaking cables. . and who knows, right?

Still, no reason to write nastiness. Let people do whatever they want and enjoy it.

 

JC you wrote:-

"Record players lived and died entirely within the previous century. They are obsolete technology, and firmly in the legacy category. No longer to be considered as Hi-Fidelity in the strict sense, but they do qualify in the 'Home Entertainment' category, which is what they were originally made for."

Just because a TT does not have a DAC does not mean it can be hi-fidelity, get a grip; have you heard a top flight TT?

 

In case anyone thinks I'm anti record players - I'm not.

Here's a pic of one of my record players, which is currently set up for the transcription of 78's to digital files.




I can well understand anyone who has a large record collection might wish to play them, and of course to do that you need a good record player.

However I'm not personally a fan of vinyl LP albums, - I much prefer singles. The main use for microgroove LP's was, imo, in a bygone age, when a recording lasting longer that four minutes was required, without the requirement to spread it over several discs.

High quality tape machines never took off in the domestic arena, due to the high costs involved, and the clumsiness of the format.

Making digital transcriptions of your favourite records is a very worthwhile excercise, and I can assure anyone who is interested that a good digital transcription is exactly the same as listening to the record.

In some cases it can be even better, since it is possible to correct defects in the original record and the record-player.

I would go as far as to say it is by far the most satisfactory way to listen to 78's since the recording technology of the day was far in advance of the re-play technology.

I think that statement is broadly true of all records, and if you have an efficient setup, and you are going to play records, - you might as well digitise them at the same time.

It does take a bit of experience to achieve this in an efficient and un-obtrusive manner, but it is, imo, very worthwhile since it avoids the need to continually play the records, and thereby degrade them further.


I have also made considerable effort to make my own digital recordings from live performances, and can appreciate the skills necessary to make a good recording in the first place. However, 'HiFi' is principally concerned with taking the recording as presented for consumption, and re-playing it as accurately as possible.

JC

 

Disregarding the price, any record player is bound by the quality of the record it is playing.

 

I've only just noticed your post fp

- Yes, .... I think so, ....... but I wouldn't call an LP12, even a modified one, ' a top flight TT' if that is the sort of thing you mean.

Most of the Linn record decks are easily bettered by a second-hand Thorens belt drive job costing c. £150 which has been correctly set up in good condition.

I don't like belt drive stuff at all I afraid, - I'm much more in the lindsayt category with his EMT predilection.

My own favourite record decks ( and which I own) are TD 124, SL150, 301, 2x Lenco's, and some others. Mostly I use SME or Syrinx arms.

I must get around to selling some of them, as mostly they are un-employed these days, and I shall only keep one for 78's and one for vinyl, set up for transcription use.

I sold off my Studer-Revox tape machines and associated electronics about 10 years ago, as they were totally superseded by digital recording equipment.

These days you can do every thing needed, in a better manner, with a better result, with a MacBook Pro.

Loudspeakers remain the area of hot contention for developments.

JC

 

When you say "a good digital recording" what do you mean by that?

Are you talking about CD format digital recordings or something else? Something with a far better specification than CD?

You may well be right when you say that digital can beat vinyl. However, I've yet to hear a digital system that does - but then I've only compared CD to vinyl. You may well be refering to some other digital format that I've not heard yet.


And what amplifier or amplifiers in your opinion have been developed to the point where no compromises remain?

I can't think of any amplifiers that don't have easily audible compromises in at least one of the following areas: naturalness, dynamics, bass, midrange, treble, detail. If you can nominate an amplifier that's uncompromised, I'd love to hear it and compare it to my current favourite amplifiers.

 

Agreed 100% Last night I listened to my Philips Red label pressing of the Sacre du Printemps, magical!