Why is PInk Fish So Scary and Disfunctional

I'm pretty much a lurker over there, but was thinking when we briefly thought zerogain was going to go, that I may have to go there. I lurk, mainly because I get worried that if I post anything I will be attacked and ridiculed. Why can't they just chill out a bit?

 

Why not ask 'them' there rather than here?

Paul

 

It is? Never found that, I must confess. Mind you, I don't post that often there, mainly because many folk there are Naim owners, and I have never even heard Naim, so I really can't comment.

 

Because they'll chew me up, spit me out, rip my arm off and beat me with the soggy end

I also know some of us here attend both places, but also notice that those who are here tend not to be the ones who make it an unpleasant place to be sometimes and thought maybe they could give an insight. Maybe not much point asking them there ... they probably think its normal.

 

This seems fairly typical

 

Uncle Ants

I am a member of Pink Fish, has posted there and been ridiculed! You just have to remember it's only an internet bulletin board like any other and not 'real life'. If you're confident in yourself as an individual then who cares what a bunch of egotists have got to say on some forum!

To be fair to PFM it does have its share of thoughtful and helpful members too. I started a thread recently about difficulties I have been having in relation to my work situation and it attracted a tide of helpful responses. As far as the audio room goes, you just have to be aware that there are at least two distinct 'camps' - Linn/Naim and ATC/Mana and they frequently look for any excuse to get at each others' throats! Can be fun to watch, but less so if you participate and find yourself on the end of some unexpected riposte.

I am only an ocasional visitor to ZeroGain and have usually found this forum quite a pleasant change after the shenanigans on PFM, but I do know this forum has suffered its own share of squabbles; I gather this is part of the reason Michaelab has stepped down as administrator. In any case, with over 700 posts to your name I'm sure you are well aware of most of what I'm saying here anyway. My advice to you is to stop lurking and post something....what's the worst that can happen?

Regards,

JonR

 

The sort of discussion in which I never get involved! I've challenged both Quad amp-haters and Mana-lovers there and survived. Mind you, I don't take any of them too seriously. Ultimately, as in all hi-fi, only one rule applies - if your ears tell you that's for you, that's for you, and everyone who thinks otherwise can take themselves off the very hot place indeed.

 

pfm is indeed a bit anarchistic, but almost all is simply harmless banter between people who know each other well - some of it is actually quite funny. That which is offensive is removed (assuming a moderator or I see it). The ironic thing is that all the loudmouths post here as well!

You would certainly not be 'attacked / ridiculed' if you posted there, well definitely not for your kit – I only have to look 3 feet to my left to see a Spacedeck / Spacearm / B100!

I've always tried to keep pfm totally brand independent, it was meant to be about good value second hand audio, but have to admit I haven't succeeded very well! There is a bit of a Naim bias, but that isn't my doing other than some of the early models are great value second hand and still fully supported.

Tony.

 

To be honest guys, its not something I lose sleep over. Its as much academic interest as anything. Just sort of wondering what it is in the dynamic of one forum over an other which can lead to what seems pretty extreme online behaviour.

... mind you some bells are ringing here. Its your mention of mana Tones that did it ... is the vocal chap over there the guy who used to post here with his tower of power mana thing and caused ructions? You know the one ... it looked like you needed a step ladder to change a record.

 

I don't see the problem. Dev is stirring but only with people who know him. There's no reason at all to get involved.

Post on something you know about, see what happens.

Paul

 

Nice kit

 

Okay. Will just avoid any thing which goes anywhere near Naim, Linn, ATC or Mana. Shouldn't be too hard as I haven't much interest in any of em. Happy with my Amp, don't like bouncy decks, can't afford ATC and prefer recreational drugs to hifi stands so far as addictions go

 

That'll be the good Dr. McPeake, alias Blzebub ("The Devil" here), a man totally one-eyed when it comes to Mana and ATC monitors. And no, it's not a step ladder, it's rope and crampons. Bub can be a bit over the top at times and he's very self-opinionated but he's also very witty and his stuff is nearly always worth reading. He would appear to have that requisite for forum dialogue, a hide like armour plate.

My personal favourite remains Mick Parry, wealthy retired Naim devotee. Mick is the subject of endless abuse, yet he floats serenely above it all, dusting off his tormenters, absolutely sure of the goodness and righteousness of his cause and choices.

 

That I appreciate, Tony, but I guess it was (at least originally) a flat earth forum, and Naim is the epitome thereof (or so I'm told).

 

The 'flat earth' thing is for me is owner attitude rather than brand, I see it as the way many people audition kit, though I admit I may be in a minority here. pfm has picked up many Naim and Mana punters along the way (I've owned both brands myself), and I have no problem with that, but sometimes thins do get far to fundamentalist for my personal taste. We also have people with valves, horns and just about everything else so it isn't all one sided.

The 'flat earth' thing has been both a benefit and a hindrance for pfm; it has given the forum a unique identity, but has also resulted in it being a little less tolerant than I would like. To be honest I am concerned about Uncle Ant's perception of the place, my goal has always been for pfm to be a fun place for all to visit. The dilemma is that I like the 'edge' pfm has and don't really want to dilute it, but at the same time don't want it to appear off-putting to newcomers.

pfm actually runs the same AUP as ZG (Michael and I worked together on it), so in theory the same levels of behaviour are deemed acceptable on both forums. Many pfm posters sail expertly close to that AUP!

Tony.

 

I'm a regular poster on PFM, and am still a reasonably regular poster here. I think a lot of Naim gear is hugely overrated, and their speakers are rubbish, have severe conceptual difficulties with a lot of flat earthism, which mistakes brand loyalty for having some sort of well-worked-out theory of audio, and think PR&T is a completely meaningless term. I've said all these things on PFM and never been flamed there as a result. It's a nice place, and the music room is becoming better by the week. I think some people look at the usual Mick P versus Bub/ATC versus the world/Mana versus the world type threads and draw unwarranted conclusions about the place, that's a tiny proportion of what happens on PFM, and no different to the ABX wars and cable debates that happen here every now and then. Most of it's in good humour AFAICT, sometimes the wind-ups and pisstaking get mistaken for genuine bile, but it's rarely anything other than play-fighting.

-- Ian

 

Ian, I think you forgot to insert "IMO" in your post

 

I have to put in my good word for PFM too. I'm certainly not a flat-earther and I never got the feeling I was thought any less of on PFM because of it. I post there much less often than here largely because I'm less interested in the things being discussed in the audio room there. I only got into any hot water a couple of times when putting forward my opinion that there's no sonic difference between cables and in one of the accuracy debates but I got the same thing here . There is one completely brainwashed flat earth fundamentalist on PFM with whom it's impossible to have a reasoned discussion but it can be amusing to wind him up - he doesn't post here thank god!

Michael.

 

I am a cross between a tank and an elephant. The thing is, all I need to do, to prove those twunts wrong, is to go spin a disc. They don't know that. Well, perhaps they do now...

 

I used to post on the New Order Forum, but I don't any more, the attitudes really started to annoy me, and it got to the point where I couldn't say or do anything right.

Some of the arguments got quite petty, I vaguely remeber a big Manchester v Salford debate, some hard core "propoh salfod init" people could not understand the concept of Greater Manchester and that Salford needs Manchester to support it. I got ridiculed because I didn't know every single New Order record ever made in all its various different versions, I got ridiculed because they thought my site was pathetic yet they think a cookie is somthing you eat.

I do have disagreements on here but I like to think they are friendly, they are debates rather than arguments. Touch would there is no personal vendetta's on here, where as the NO forum I was really hated.

Some forums just don't have a nice attompshere where as others do, mine has the same attompshere is Southern Cemetery at the moment.